20 ARC
- Thread starter Bodhisafa
- Start date
They're all very close but none of them fit a 223 bolt. All are ppc bolt cartridges. Which means they are all very similar from top to bottom. Nothing is likely to ever unseat a ppc as king of sr br work but frankly, there's just not enough difference in these three to definitively say one is absolutely better than the others. There's just not.
ASbobcat
Silver $$ Contributor
Just measured a couple of 22ARC cases made from Grendel brass. RL-17 to base of neck:
Hornady 29.0gr Case wt 115gr
Federal 28.0gr Case wt 117gr
So brand makes a significant difference. Hornady lists 31.0gr loads, so assume those must be compressed.
Nosler load data for 22PPC shows 28.0gr RL-15 as 100% load density (Lapua 220 Russian brass).
Don't have any Lapua Grendel to compare. ARC body is .075 longer than PPC, which should equate to about 8% (2.5gr) more capacity. So Lapua brass must be lighter, which would explain why some are reporting better brass life with Hornady than Lapua.
I welcome feedback from anyone who has either Hornady 22ARC brass or Lapua Grendel brass, to compare usable capacity and case weight..
Where are you measuring to, to get .075 longer? The .350 datum is what matters and where you should be measuring to, from base to datum. Anything else causes confusion around a subject with enough of that already.
B23
Gold $$ Contributor
In that 35-ish gr. H2O case capacity range the only one that I know of that uses the small 223 bolt face is the 22 Nosler. Nosler teased us with a 20 Nosler some years back and it had the shoulder pushed forward a bit beyond what their 22 Nos has which gave it a case capacity of 39gr H2O and still ran on a small 223 bolt face. With decent brass a 20 Nosler like that could have been a fun one to sling the 40's and even Berger 55's with.
Except for wildcats the 20 caliber world has pretty much died on the vine.
L.Sherm
Silver $$ Contributor
I still believe if the 20VT would have been saaami 15-20 years ago and factory rounds available with good brass it would be king in the small cal world, its a great round between the hornet case and BR stuff snd still has a pretty strong following today in the small call world
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ASbobcat
Silver $$ Contributor
To the member who said "comparison should be between .350 datum", there is no standard .350 datum for the PPC case because it is not a SAAMI approved cartridge. This is one of the many reasons why I ignore this member.
Notice I said "about".
Lol! Well, I'm that poster. I only asked a simple question, looking for a simple answer. The point about a PPC being a wildcat in semantics. So, assume it's .350 and what is the difference then. Or, where did you measure it from. No way it was that different at the same point. I mean, come on. A Grendel is a .070 long PPC at the datum. Or, you could call it a .030 long 6 ARC, saami cartridge in both cases...at the datum. Strangely, Hornady made the 6 ARC to a totally different dimension that is .040 shorter than the 22, which is precisely a 22 Grendel.
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AFAIK, ppc, Grendel and ARC all share the same case taper per inch as well as same shoulder angle.
B23
Gold $$ Contributor
Maybe, but I think it still would have been heavily overshadowed by the 204 Ruger shooting factory ammo 2-3 hundred fps faster then a 20VT and before anyone says it that is no slight to the 20VT. The different 20-221 Improved wildcats do a lot with a little but y'all are narrowing that gap by running your 20VT/20-221 Improved at considerably higher pressures. The 204 Ruger has a sizeable case capacity advantage over any 20 cal wildcat off the little 221FB case and as they say in the motor world, "there's no replacement for displacement".
To a degree, I sometimes wonder if the 204 Ruger was almost to good when it was introduced because it kind of bridged to many gaps and didn't leave any room for growth. I understand it's apples and oranges but I think of the 6.5 Creedmoor, would it have been as popular as it has become if Hornady would have introduced the 6.5 PRC first? I tend to think a 6.5 CM would have been largely overshadowed by the 6.5 PRC and never gotten a foothold in the market they way it has if the 6.5 PRC had come out first.
One thing I think we all can pretty much agree on is it's nice to have all the different options we do and I am all for having lots of options. If Hornady ever decides to introduce a 20 ARC or if Nosler would follow through with their 20 Nosler I would gladly welcome them. Personally, I think something like a 20 Nosler with decent brass running on a small 223 bolt face would get a good amount of attention in the 20 caliber world but the powers to be obviously don't agree so I'll have to assume they know a lot more about what the masses want than I do.
Gabe22BR
Gold $$ Contributor
B23
Gold $$ Contributor
For me, it depends on what you mean by "doing the same thing". Same thing as in they shoot the same bullet or same thing as in they shoot the same bullet the same speed? If loaded to the same pressure with the same bullet the 204 Ruger wins by hundreds of fps over a 20-221 improved. You can't stand on the gas of one and not the other to make it shoot as fast as the larger case then say oh it's just a really efficient case and I'm not saying you are I'm just making a statement.
As I've said, many, times before people can load their stuff however they want it makes no difference to me but I think we, all, would be very surprised at the pressure levels we are loading some of our stuff to while still saying "and that's with no pressure". There's no magic with this stuff, you generally don't get one (velocity) without the other (pressure).
Gabe22BR
Gold $$ Contributor
You correct..
I don’t own a 204 ruger-never interested me-
I have had my 20-221AI w/ 32gr up in the 4200fps range.. .. currently idling now in the warmer months at 4187fps..
It’s just hard to get a long skinny case (.204) to group as accurate as a short fat ( 20-221AI) and be efficient with the powder with the same velocity on the same bullet.
Yes, it’ll have more pressure for sure.
Thinks that is the design of the case… hence the PPC over the BR designs.
For me, a .100” short fireball case design- allowing 16gr of powder- pushing a 32gr bullet @ 3600fps - would be the perfect design- like the 20 badger… only with a thicker base to avoid the primer pocket failures .. again pressure coming into play
I’ll stick to my nonSAAMI designs for better reasons than factory offerings..
I don’t own a 204 ruger-never interested me-
I have had my 20-221AI w/ 32gr up in the 4200fps range.. .. currently idling now in the warmer months at 4187fps..
It’s just hard to get a long skinny case (.204) to group as accurate as a short fat ( 20-221AI) and be efficient with the powder with the same velocity on the same bullet.
Yes, it’ll have more pressure for sure.
Thinks that is the design of the case… hence the PPC over the BR designs.
For me, a .100” short fireball case design- allowing 16gr of powder- pushing a 32gr bullet @ 3600fps - would be the perfect design- like the 20 badger… only with a thicker base to avoid the primer pocket failures .. again pressure coming into play
I’ll stick to my nonSAAMI designs for better reasons than factory offerings..
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L.Sherm
Silver $$ Contributor
That would be the ticket.
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