2-Way Radio recommendations for Gun Range?

[muleman69]

Want to replace the FRS radios that we use for our 600 and 1000 yard BR matches. Need to purchase 4 that are rechargeable, hoping someone can steer me in the right direction.

Thanks in advance...Bill Wood in Shingletown CA

Look at the Wouxun also. Get the programable ones and apply for your own license,not that hard to get. I have Kenwoods,Bendixkings,and Wouxun. Wouxun has worked as will as the high dollar stuff for years ,even better in a lot of ways

 

[Wild Willy]

Thanks everyone for the input so far...

 

[klamathsteel]

If you use the BAOFENG , Model #UV82L and are not a licensed Ham radio operator you are breaking the law.

That is completely false.

 

[shoobe01]

FRS is license free, and can be used for business purposes. That's your 1/2 watt limit though.

GMRS can be more powerful, requires a license, which is $70 / year. Per person. There is no such thing as an organizational license. If 4 radios means 4 users, it may work but if they are for others, like match directors, then it's an issue if someone asks.

Yeah, lots of people blow off licensing, but I know >1 business that got hung up over this. Not sure your range should risk it when not needed.

Also the buy-once/cry-once. Even good consumer radios are not commercial, and the lowest-price chicom ones often go bad out of the blue, as well as being less tolerant of dropping, rain, and so on. Used LMRs (land mobile radios; professional handy talkies) can be very cheap used, and you just replace the wear bits like batteries, antennas. I've bought many an Icom for $20, spent another $30 on those bits and we're in a good radio for Baofeng prices. Esp if just a few frequencies, then the lack of buttons to get the radio mis-configured is good; just 16 channels to dial up and use.

Unless a tiny membership, someone and maybe several people there will be HAMs and maybe someone has helped set up the comms for their business. They may be able to help with details, even borrow their setup gear (computers, cables...) to save costs as well.

 

[klamathsteel]

The problem with FRS radios is they are UHF (450 mhz). UHF does not propagate nearly as well as VHF (150mhz). By propagate i mean the ability of the signal to go around obstructions such as buildings, hills, and maybe the berm and concrete wall in the pits at your range. Buy a radio that is FCC Part 90 accepted which means it will transmit on the VHF commercial frequencies legally. Now there's two things you can do. 1. apply for an FCC license for a dedicated VHF channel (preferred) which will cost initially around 300 bucks and is a 10 year license. 2. use one of the five license free MURS channels. MURS stands for "multiple use radio service" and anybody can use them although they are restricted to i believe 3 watts output power, but that's enough power for any rifle range. I would strongly suggest going the licensed route but you don't have to. However if you want to i can point you to a company i have used for years for frequency coordination and FCC filings. It's a simple process and like i said will be around 300 bucks. I'm a radio technician for a living, i know of what i speak. Hope this helps !!

 

[Brians356]

The BaoFeng UV-82L can transmit over a wide range of frequencies, including but not limited to two ham bands. You don't need a ham license to transmit as long as you select a legal frequency. But it would be very easy to run afoul of FCC regs with one of them. The best choice would be to select one of the FRS frequencies which the UV-82L covers.

I don't get why common FRS handhelds won't continue to work for a 1000-yd range. I've done a lot of hunting in western mountains with ubiquitous Motorola FRS units available at any sporting goods outlet, and never knew them to fail to communicate clearly, even beyond true line-of-sight. Ipso facto, a rifle range is line-of-sight. A half a watt is far more than sufficient for 63 cm direct communication.
-

 

[Rocketvapor]

That is completely false.

Probably NOT False.
Look up FCC Type Approval and the fact that some radios can NOT be bought and imported into the US through legal distributors/dealers.
Beofeng has REMOVED unapproved radios from their site.
To buy the illegal ones you much buy from a place like eBay or an Amazon Marketplace reseller (might even ship from Amazon)
Pick the service you intent to use and check type approval, and license requirements.
FCC audits are usually complaint based. If no one complains you are probably good.
How much you, your club, your shooting range are willing to risk is your business.
Be careful about suggesting, and not being questioned about illegal activities.

 

[klamathsteel]

You'll notice i included this in my post. " Buy a radio that is FCC Part 90 accepted which means it will transmit on the VHF commercial frequencies legally. " Any radio that is FCC Part 90 accepted can be used on the VHF commercial frequencies as long as you are either licensed or using a license exempt frequency such as MURS.

 

[brokeasajoke]

I have had a Baofeng that I use as a rural firefighter for about 7 years. I have less than $30 in it. My experience is always with a repeater so YMMV. Except for requiring a computer to program all the frequencies, it is a great cheapo. I grab it a lot over my Motorola initially on a call because it powers up much faster.

 

[shoobe01]

Ipso facto, a rifle range is line-of-sight...

Large ranges, or facilities with ranges, often stuff ranges beyond a ridge, finding flat areas may mean it's 5 miles between one firing line and another, or there are less-flat-range things (jungle walks, etc) down in gullies and valleys. Not to mention berms, buildings, other RF sources, and trying to talk to people indoors or in vehicles, to confound the signal at extreme ranges even when it's flat.

 

[D-4297]

So, ranges are talking on an open forum about using radios that are NOT FCC TYPE APPROVED for the services they are using. Personal use out in the woods, or training for SHTF is one thing but risking range liability might not be advisable in this political climate.

You did not read the post correctly . I used my radio at Ben Avery for the Matches . I "dialed" it down to the channel the other radios were on . I'm a little confused as to why there is a issue here . When you have a radio that has the capability to be tuned to a frequency , and the display on the radio says FR1 when turned on , are you not on that frequency ? And transmitting legally ? So what am I missing here ? Besides the fact there are some innuendos regarding "Chinese" radios . Newsflash ! Roughly 90% of ALL radio components are made in China or Japan . Including Motorola radios . I was living in Phx. when the closed the plants on 52nd St. and in Chandler , and shipped all those jobs to China . You know ....Out-sourcing for profit ! Thousands lost their good paying jobs here , but hey ? Wasn't you . No worries . Again ; the radio was set to transmit on the correct frequency , so what's the issue ? Really ?

 

[Brians356]

Large ranges, or facilities with ranges, often stuff ranges beyond a ridge, finding flat areas may mean it's 5 miles between one firing line and another, or there are less-flat-range things (jungle walks, etc) down in gullies and valleys. Not to mention berms, buildings, other RF sources, and trying to talk to people indoors or in vehicles, to confound the signal at extreme ranges even when it's flat.

Fair enough. Nevertheless, I've never had a problem with common Motorola FRS talking to someone a mile away with terrain blocking true line of sight. There's some ground wave transmission propagation even in the lower UHF band. If memory serves, FRS permits 2 watts radiated on most channels. I suppose one must be somewhat selective when choosing the FRS gear. But I dare say very few ranges would suffer from terrain blocking. Maybe the OP's is one such range.
-

 

[Wild Willy]

I'm a simple fella. Our old radios were FRS and I opted to replace with a set of Midlands. I appreciate all of the input, thank you.

 

[Rocketvapor]

You did not read the post correctly . I used my radio at Ben Avery for the Matches . I "dialed" it down to the channel the other radios were on . I'm a little confused as to why there is a issue here . When you have a radio that has the capability to be tuned to a frequency , and the display on the radio says FR1 when turned on , are you not on that frequency ? And transmitting legally ? So what am I missing here ? Besides the fact there are some innuendos regarding "Chinese" radios . Newsflash ! Roughly 90% of ALL radio components are made in China or Japan . Including Motorola radios . I was living in Phx. when the closed the plants on 52nd St. and in Chandler , and shipped all those jobs to China . You know ....Out-sourcing for profit ! Thousands lost their good paying jobs here , but hey ? Wasn't you . No worries . Again ; the radio was set to transmit on the correct frequency , so what's the issue ? Really ?

I read your post.
A Type Approved FRS radio can not have the ability for the user to tune to an illegal frequency, change channel width, or have the capability for the user to select the wrong power level, from the keypad.
The FCC intends for them to be Monkey Proof to be TYPE APPROVED.
The manufacturer REMOVED the illegal radios for sale to the US.
Illegal radios can not be imported, advertised, or sold without an advisory.
What you are using is a ham radio that can tune to FRS frequencies.
Read what Beofeng says on their own web site.
Again, it would take someone to complain for it to be an issue.
CBers are usually left alone if their overmodulated high powered multiband CB radios aren't bothering anyone. They get more range which is often viewed as enhanced safety on the open road.

Did the staff at Ben Avery recommend using non-type approved FRS radios?
Or, just turn their backs?
Did you get better range from the Beofeng than a newer Midland?
Buy several of the illegal radios. When coms become vital, they might save your butt.
They are easy to find though. A directional antenna and a SDR frequency scanner will detect them.
Sort of a common pass time for hams. An alternative to playing video games

FRS/GMRS combined channel chart - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

FRS, from the FCC

Family Radio Service (FRS)

The Family Radio Service (FRS) is a private, two-way, very short-distance voice and data communications service for facilitating family and group activities. The most common use for FRS channels is short-distance, two-way voice communications using small hand-held radios that are similar to...

www.fcc.gov

GMRS, from the FCC

General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS)

AboutRule Part47 C.F.R, Part 95 Subpart ERadio Service Code(s)ZA - GMRS

www.fcc.gov

MURS, From the FCC

Multi-Use Radio Service (MURS)

About Rule Part 47 C.F.R, Part 95

www.fcc.gov

 

[D-4297]

The staff at Ben Avery probably wasn't aware I was using it , since it "matched-up" on channel with the other radios being used . So the main issue is that this radio has to much transmitting power . Range wasn't a factor in using the radio at BA , but clearer , cleaner com was . And the staff , , and Az. Fish & Game were totally un-aware I was using a "BOOT-LEG ILLEGAL RADIO" ! Happy Now ? Whaaah .....!

 

[Rocketvapor]

IF no one is aware, who's going to complain?
That's the big issue, getting caught
Unless there is an interference problem the FCC will likely just ignore slight indiscretions
Newer FRS radios have 2 watts out on channels 1-7.
(see link in previous post) The Midland radios can be bought in the bubble 2 pack.
A small increase to 5 watts out really isn't going to be noticable (with the same modulation and antenna gain. The 8 watt Baofengs usually put out about 5 watts. The GMRS "License" is for 10 years, $70, and applies to you and any immediate family member. Communicating with FRS radios is legal.

There are a FEW legal issues with a non- type approved radio though.
FCC approval is just one of them.
An approved FRS radio cannot select illegal frequencies from the KEYPAD. The FCC does not trust you
Higher gain antennas (equivalent to more power) can be used with Baofeng but not legal with FRS.
Out in the wild or an isolated shooting range these low power (my base ham rig is 200W, my mobile 8 Watts)
are not likely to interfere with nearby users. Most ranges are a few miles from anyone that would complain.
With many LEGAL radios operating at a sporting event, one or two ILLEGAL radios will not be noticed.

I don't actively search for FRS/GMRS radios on my property but if I suspect people are hunting/trespassing I sweep the bands, find their frequencies and TELL them to leave.

I have no need to complain about anyone buying and using these radios. They are not likely to cause ME any harm. (I also have a few). The 600/1000yd range I frequent uses the newer FRS (with 2watts) and will allow you to bring your own. I would not WANT to cause them any issues with illegal radios so I bring my Midland.

 

[Brians356]

IF no one is aware, who's going to complain?
That's the big issue, getting caught

An approved FRS radio cannot select illegal frequencies from the KEYPAD. The FCC does not trust you

You don't inspire much trust, wouldn't you admit?

I'm sure you see the need for systematic allocation of the finite, congested radio spectrum. If there was general defiance, we'd have chaos and, yes, occasional tragedies.
-

 

[Rocketvapor]

I do see the need for allocation and control of the congested radio spectrum.
People will obey the rules and laws they like and ignore the others. These radios are out there. Most are not even aware of the laws they are breaking. If people are going to be using them, don't do things that will attract attention. Don't recommend that others do things without knowing the FACTS.

I'm an Extra class Ham and have a GMRS license, use FRS radios, and a Marine Mobile on my boat.
I also have a few of the Chinese Clones (I like the GT-3TP).
I keep trying to convince the wife to take the Tech or Gen test so she can use my radios but she's more of a cell phone person . I QSO with a foreign country and she's "what's his phone number".
NOT THE POINT WOMAN, go back to sleep

My posts here were to promote the legal use, wherever possible, of the radio spectrum.
While the sale of these black market radio can be a problem most are far enough from legal users or in a situation like a sporting event to be buried with the legal radios.
Just don't get your event shut down for Radio Interference.

Being ON CHANNEL is better than the high bander CBer using ham bands or Beofengs hitting repeaters without the proper license.

 

[dgeesaman]

The BaoFeng UV-82L can transmit over a wide range of frequencies, including but not limited to two ham bands. You don't need a ham license to transmit as long as you select a legal frequency. But it would be very easy to run afoul of FCC regs with one of them. The best choice would be to select one of the FRS frequencies which the UV-82L covers.

I don't get why common FRS handhelds won't continue to work for a 1000-yd range. I've done a lot of hunting in western mountains with ubiquitous Motorola FRS units available at any sporting goods outlet, and never knew them to fail to communicate clearly, even beyond true line-of-sight. Ipso facto, a rifle range is line-of-sight. A half a watt is far more than sufficient for 63 cm direct communication.
-

Line of sight vs the 30ft thick berm at the target pits though?

 

[LVLAaron]

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