2 LUG vs 3 LUG Opinions

[22BRGUY]

Would much appreciate opinions and experiences from some of you more seasoned shooters on how the 3 lug actions have performed vs. the 2 lug design in terms of accuracy and in competition. I read German Salazars review which was helpful but also have a good friend who discouraged the 3 lug style as being slower.
I am looking at the Bats of course, the Barnards, and the new Pierce Multi Flat.

Thanks for your help and replies.

 

[watercam]

Slower at what? Cycling the action? With a shorter throw, perhaps. I just purchased a Barnard and it is the easiest lifting bolt I have experienced to date. That being said, there are certainly plenty of blue printed and custom benchrest actions out there shooting great groups with 2 lugs.
For myself, shooting prone only, I like the fact that there is some bolt head support along the sides as well as top and bottom. In theory it MIGHT help with horizontal dispersion. But then there is the wind...

 

[KT]

I may be wrong but the Pierce Multi Flat is a 2 Lug. Or at least the one I just ordered is.

However I do know that pierce is talking about a three lug. I'm not sure if they will offer it in the Multi flat.

I have one of their tube gun actions already and I'm very happy with it. Which lead me to order the multi flat.

What discipline are you shooting?

KT

 

[22BRGUY]

Yes I know the Pierce is a 2 lug but am considering it as it looks to have all the right stuff and have heard great things about Pierce. Thanks for noticing and the reply.

On the other note, I have heard that the 3 lug setup is slower cycling but have also read some reviews that confirm that the Barnards are very smooth.

thanks again guys

 

[Tozguy]

The Barnard 3 lug is a delight.
Either a 2 lug or 3 lug design can be smooth if it is well made.
Personnally the shorter throw of a 3 lug tilts the balance in its favor.
How big a scope are you planning on using?

 

[jr600yd]

I shoot a Gilkes/Ross which is now Ross Precision and it's a three lug. With the shorter bolt lift it's as fast as any of them. Since I shoot F and prone class and loading is done one round at a time speed don't mean squat! I think the 3 lug action is a little stronger, this helps a lot when shooting max loads.

 

[22BRGUY]

I'm hoping to get into 600 and 1000 yard bench stuff...I have 3 8-32 scopes I really like but could end up trading a couple of them out for a Nightforce 12-42 or Sightron 10-50 higher magnification if the ones I have don't get it for 1000.

thanks again guys

 

[bugman]

comparing one bat 3- lug to three bat 2-lugs, IMO:

the 3-lug is faster due to it's shorter throw and bolt handle angle than the 2-lug. however, even with the cocking cam roller on the 3-lug, I find it requires more force to open the bolt than with the 2-lug. IOW, the potential to rock the rifle in the bags is greater with the 3-lug. I attribute that to the increased surface area of that extra lug and the relative weights of the rifles....whether that is right or wrong, the comparison of the force required to open the bolt is obvious.

the 3-lug is used on a LV 6 ppc, and the whole object is to get your group finished as fast as possible in tricky conditions. the 2-lugs are on 16 to 17 pound rifles that are primarily shot for score. regardless, IMO, I am not impressed with the 3-lug and have used the 2-lugs on three times the rifles.

Bottom line is I think the faster operation of the 3-lug is over-shadowed by the increased force to lift the 3-lug bolt. IMO, you should base your decision on the weight of the rifle you will build, whether speed is your primary concern, and if you can train yourself to place thumb pressure on the shroud as you rotate open the bolt handle.

Jack

 

[FroggyOne2]

Fast cycling three lug.. ummm Sako maybe.. I can't remember if the Tikkas are 3 lug or not, but they are fast to cycle and very smooth.. for a factory action.. but I still love them Barnards!

 

[gme]

Generally speaking, two lug actions have longer bolt throw (about 90 degrees) than three lug actions (about 60 degrees) but will have lighter bolt lift because the firing pin cocking ramp is more gradual, three lug actions have less rotation to cock the firing pin so the ramp is steeper, other factors that affect the bolt lift are the firing pin spring tension and the design of the primary extraction camming at the top of the bolt lift, so some three lug actions seem fairly easy on the bolt lift while others are very heavy, as I recall Bruce at Bat told me his three lug requires about 1 pound more force to lift than his two lugs, as for making a difference in accuracy, the point is debatable.
Gary Eliseo

 

[Steve Blair]

Some years ago, Creighton Audette demonstrated that asymmetrical cases could affect impact point when cases were rotated to align over a lug or not. One argument for a 3 (or 4) lug bolt is that it better resists this off-axis force. The ammunition I assemble is unlikely to produce this effect and both 2 lug and 3 lug actions seem equally accurate. [br]
Per Bugman Jack's point; it is more important to determine what your discipline requires and make the choice on that basis. I shoot a 3 lug BAT 3LL147OCTPIC in F-Open Long Range and a Stiller Viper SS in F-Open Mid Range. The two actions are very similar except for the lugs. Both do very well. In neither case is fast cycling a factor.

 

[22BRGUY]

You guys are all Super and helpful. I watched Tony Boyer on a short vid the other day and noticed that he puts his thumb on the shroud when recycling. I think it was he that requested a 3 lugger from Bat if I understood the article right. With all your help though its still a tough decision.
Further comments will be appreciated. Wish that Pierce had been around a little longer. Haven't seen any 600 or 1000 yard results with anyone yet using them in competition.

thanks again

 

[Tozguy]

Fast cycling three lug.. ummm Sako maybe.. I can't remember if the Tikkas are 3 lug or not, but they are fast to cycle and very smooth.. for a factory action.. but I still love them Barnards!

Sako/Tikka are 2 lug but have a shorter throw than most other 2 lug.
Browning ABolt is a 3 lug.

 

[gme]

I own three Pierce actions and use them in long range events regularly, they are outstanding
Gary Eliseo

 

[FroggyOne2]

Thanks Toz, I could not remember what they were. Just remember that I liked the way the bolt cycles.

 

[Tozguy]

As interesting as it may be to compare the designs of 2 lug versus 3 lug actions, there is nothing like actually handling one yourself to see what it is like. I won't buy an action without handling it first. I drove 3 hours (one way) to have a Barnard in my own hands before committing to buying one.
If you were close enough I would gladly let you examine what I have.

 

[357Mag]

22BR -

Howdy !

I've had/shot a Wichita WBR1375 ( 3-lug ) action, since the Three Wisemen came. Mine is s/n 15.

I have not felt the need to acquire another custom BR-grade action. My Wichita has been re-barrelled multiple times.

While I have not won a whole lot, over the years; none of that is the action's/gun's fault.

I vote 3-lug.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[dooley]

tikka rifles are 2 lug, sako are 3, I have an original accuracy international target rifle with a 6 lug bolt, but my newer accuracy international has a 3 lug bolt, However I have a 2 lug remington which has been rebarreled to 6.5x47,
the action is as smooth as silk, and my favourite rifle, in my opinion 2 lug makes for a smoother action.
dooley (UK)

 

[Glenn Powell]

I don't have one of the BR 3 lug actions, but my Cooper is a three lug. Though I absolutely love that rifle, it has a noticeably stiffer bolt then ether my Remingtons or older two lug Sako's. Good luck, starting a build is a lot of fun! But I am just learning how addictive it is. ;D