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180 Berger vs 183 SMK in 284 Win

I've shot both the 180 Hybrid and the 183 SMK in my straight 284. Interestingly, both projectiles seem to perform best in my barrel at just about the same powder charge. I know that the 183 SMK is about .080" longer in OAL and also has about a .015" larger base to ogive measurement. Another difference that I've noted is the OD of the projectile. With my cheap dial calipers, I have the 183 SMK at .2830" - .2835" where the 180 Hybrid will measure .284". However, there is a substantial difference in velocity between the two projectiles at the same powder charge. With 51.9 grains of H4350 under each projectile running similar (.015") jump the 180 Berger will run 2831 FPS compared to 2786 FPS on the 183 SMK. The 180 Berger runs 45 FPS faster....

I would like to have a better understanding as to why and if anybody else is having similar experience with these two projectiles?
 
I've shot both the 180 Hybrid and the 183 SMK in my straight 284. Interestingly, both projectiles seem to perform best in my barrel at just about the same powder charge. I know that the 183 SMK is about .080" longer in OAL and also has about a .015" larger base to ogive measurement. Another difference that I've noted is the OD of the projectile. With my cheap dial calipers, I have the 183 SMK at .2830" - .2835" where the 180 Hybrid will measure .284". However, there is a substantial difference in velocity between the two projectiles at the same powder charge. With 51.9 grains of H4350 under each projectile running similar (.015") jump the 180 Berger will run 2831 FPS compared to 2786 FPS on the 183 SMK. The 180 Berger runs 45 FPS faster....

I would like to have a better understanding as to why and if anybody else is having similar experience with these two projectiles?

I have noticed this difference in .264 caliber bullets. SMK's run about .001 smaller in diameter than Hornady. I don't have any comparison of muzzle velocities with the same powder charge. Seems like a larger diameter bullet might be harder to push down the barrel requiring more pressure to build up before it gets going. Pressure curves have a lot to do with muzzle velocity.
 
You're correct - the SMK is smaller diameter than the Berger. All other things being the same, this will reduce both pressures and velocities slightly as it reduces the bullet's 'inertia' or resistance to movement in the barrel. Smokeless powder combustion behaviours aren't fixed, but are variable depending on both the application (ie cartridge and its internal ballistics) and differences between individual components in the mix in any given application - factors such as fireformed case capacity (a mixture of case build and chamber dimensions), bullet to barrel 'fit', length of the bullet's parallel bearing surface, whether loaded to make a jump to the lands v in the lands v 'jammed' and if so by how much.

It may be counter-intuitive as one would assume that with less bullet inertia, MVs would rise, but up to a point it has the opposite effect, likewise seating the bullet into the lands usually raises pressures / velocities over a jump situation. This is because smokeless powders 'feed on pressures' - as they rise, the burn becomes faster and more efficient. This is why a relatively small charge increase in an already over-loaded cartridge often produces a much larger rise in chamber pressures than the % charge weight increase, or the normal two to one ratio (ie + 1% on the charge = c.+ 2% PMax) leading to disastrous results.

The other factor here is the actual internal barrel dimensions as given to it by the barrelmaker. A half to full thou' difference in bullet diameter between makes or models may make a design better suited the barrel, or the reverse. This an issue that is very well known in the 6mm calibre with many threads on it in these forums and features on the Daily Bulletin. There is an unusually large range of bullet diameters to be found in 6mm match bullets, and as a result, barrelmakers offer two different bore (ie land) dimensions. IIRC the 0.243" 105gn Lapua Scenar is a thou' or so smaller diameter than its Berger equivalents and therefore often shoots better in a barrel with the 'tighter' dimensions. As soon as I got hold of the 183gn SMK for my 284, this diameter reduction concerned me as it is not only down on rivals such as the Bergers but also on the older SMKs that I currently load in the cartridge making me wonder how it is going to perform. I've not had the chance so far to get an optimal loading for the 183, so don't know yet whether this is going to be a factor or not. (And anyway, any change in results could be due to other factors with such a significant change in the bullet design over its 175 and 180gn predecessors.)

The final factor is that all other things being the same, the 3gn weight increase will see a small MV reduction. The standard way to get ballistically comparable performance values for different weight bullets in a cartridge is to compare MEs the loadings produce in ft/lbs. So, a 180gn bullet at a typical 284 match rifle MV, let's say 2,825 fps, generates 3,190 ft/lb ME. The MV that produces this value with a 183gn bullet is 2,802 fps - a larger drop than one would expect.
 
I'd like to think my pet theory about bullet swaging forces - when bullets move from the case neck into the fully rifled barrel bore - would be affected by differences in diameter of the bullets being fired.

Bearing surface length is only part of the conditions involved. It's not just the friction of intimate contact, there has to be an effect from the metal being reformed to accommodate the rifling as bullets begin their journey.

Mass affects inertia, that's a fact. But mass isn't the sole factor here.
 
Thanks for the feedback. I was pretty sure that the smaller diameter of the 183SMK was having a larger impact on the velocity than the extra 3 grains of projectile weight was over the 180 Hybrid. Interesting comment on the ME being the way to standardize performance of different weight projectiles. I would have thought it would be within 10 FPS to make up the 3 grain difference of these two projectiles... That's what I usually get for thinking!!!!
 
I can't add anything to the above except to say that I have seen the same thing; the 183 smk is slightly slower than the 180 hybrid.
 
I have an 8.7 twist and I thought I saw some promise out of the 183's but I'm back on Bergers now. I've chased my tail getting used to the 284, but I'm learning...
 
I have an 8.7 twist and I thought I saw some promise out of the 183's but I'm back on Bergers now. I've chased my tail getting used to the 284, but I'm learning...

I'm having the same learning curve as you are. For me the 183s are shooting a little more consistent and I still need to test seating debth. E
 

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