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.17 Rem bullets tumbling

I have a stock, non modded Remington .17 that the bullets are tumbling. I used to use it for fox calling and had quit for years due to decline in fox numbers(mange). This past summer I decided to use it for gophers. Went out with a friend and I was spraying lead all over!! I went home and cleaned the barrel good. Went out to sight in and noticed that bullets are going through the target sideways >:( I took it to a local gunsmith who shot some of his loads through it and they grouped fair with no tumbling.

I had been using Remington 25 bullets, his were Hornady TSX I believe. So I bought some Hornadys and still had bullets tumbling. I used Winchester 760 powder if I remember right. I am by no means a reloading expert but had been shooting this rifle with handloads for years and getting 3/4 MOA. I have no idea how many rounds have been through it as I bought it used. I am thinking that I have put 500 to 700 down the tube.

Do I need a new barrel? Thanks
 
Kzz1King: I do not have a 17 cal., so just a thought. Had my first experience 2 yrs. ago with my first (and last sub caliber/ smaller than 22) 20 cal. cartridge and as verified with my "Hawkeye" borescope, carbon fouling & buildup were a major problem. Start with a perfectly clean barrel, first 10 or 15 shots (5 shot groups at 1 & 200 yd) would be fine, then the groups would begin to open up to well over moa. Fired maybe 20 more, clean out the powder fouling, scope the bore, and it would be black as a coal mine with heavy carbon buildup. Go to work with JB, 20 to 30 strokes, and once again carbon free then start all over again. There are some who believe the "small" calibers are more prone to carbon fouling. You might want to use JB (IOSSO also recommended by some) on the bore, if that may be the problem. If you clean the barrel 'til the patches come out white, then go in with JB/IOSSO and then the patches come out black, you had carbon. It's easy to verify if you have access to a borescope. I never had keyholing, just a loss of accuracy with the 20 cal. Just re-read your post & noted you are not sure how many rds. fired. In that case, it could also simply be a shot-out barrel. Again, "The Hawkeye knows". ;)
 
The first thing I would do is to clean the barrel with JB until the patches don't bring anything out. The second thing I would do is to order however many 25 gr Bergers that you think you need and third I'd try some IMR 4895 powder in it!
Mark
P.S. I have 4 17's and have been shooting them for 30 years!
 
Tumbling bullets is typically one of two things;

1. Too slow a twist to properly stabilize the bullets being shot. For a 25 gr 17 cal. bullet a 1:10" twist is proper, but it won't stabilize a 30 gr bullet.

2. I have also seen bores that were too loose to the point that bullets began to tumble but this is a very rare event.

Chances are the bullets you were shooting were not correct for the barrel twist you have (i.e. they need a faster twist, or you need to shoot lighter bullets).

Robert Whitley
www.6mmAR.com
 
Years ago, I had a 17 Rem and my father had a 17 based on the .221 Fireball case. Both fouled badly, and after 20 rounds or so the accuracy went away badly, up to and including tumbling bullets. I suspect the fouling filled the grooves in the bore and the bullet didn't engage the rifling enough to fully spin up. The rifling in a .17 isn't very deep.

Both rifles ended up being rebarreled to .224 when the barrels were shot out.

At any rate, you will want to give the barrel a serious cleaning.

Another story to illustrate what fouling can do. I bought a very nice Sako Vixen in .222 for the action, the previous owner said the barrel was shot out. Tried a few loads and it grouped like a shotgun. Looking down the barrel I saw virtually no rifling. Took about a week, on and off, to get the bore cleaned dwon to bare metal, shot fine once it was clean.

There are a lot more powders available now than there were 40 years ago, maybe another powder would give better results with the fouling if that is the problem.

It took about 1,000 rounds for the barrel on the 17 Rem of mine to be mostly shot out though. I wouldn't expect you to get much more.
 
So what is the method to really put a cleaning on this thing before I ditch it?! The JB polish? How is it used? Thanks
 
I used a chamber plug, filled the bore with Hoppes overnight for a few days, with lots of scrubbing in between. No one new what JBs was forty years ago, don't know if it was on the market back then. And the old formula Hoppes has been history for a few years now.

Nowdays I'd say the two part Wipeout might work well as the fouling, if that is the actual issue, will be a combination copper and powder fouling. With a little JBs in between treatments. If you know someone with a borescope in the your area you might want a peak down the bore too along the way.

But like I said, barrels shoot out fast with a .17 so results will depend on what the condition of the barrel is under any fouling.
 
Kzz1King: When using the JB (original blue label, not the red), I rub a small amount on a tight fitting cleaning patch (on a stab jag) to coat the bore. Then use a snug fitting bronze brush, giving it 20 or so push (chamber to muzzle) strokes. Must remove the brush, pull the rod out, while wiping it, re-attach the brush, and do it again. I don't like to pull the brush back into the bore, over the crown. A dry patch is pushed thru ( this is the one that will come out coal black), then several soaked with Hoppes to wash out the remaining JB, dry it out. The borescope is then used to check that the carbon is gone, if not, I will do it again. A lot of work, I know, and the main reason I got rid of the 20 cal (actual ctg designation shall remain anonymous). Just got tired of spending more time cleaning than shooting. Besides that at 805 rds. fired, I saw the beginning of some very serious fire-cracking. I only ever had one rifle that keyholed shots (badly) and that was a Hart barreled 22-250 that was heavily fire-cracked after 2400 rounds. You may want to try the "Wipe-Out" as suggested by Rust: many are reporting success with it. The quickest way to determine what's going on inside the barrel, is to beg, borrow, or buy a borescope: best investment I ever made.
 
Well, I have come to the conclusion that the barrel is shot out. Now I need to decide what to do with it.Local smith wants 150 for a stainless barrel and 275 to install. Sounds like a fair price (that is for a 223)Now I need to decide if I would be better off just selling the action and buying a new rifle or rebarreling? What are the pros and cons and what is a model 700 17 with a shot barrel worth? Not even sure what to ask for it.
 
welcome to the club.....i have one also. the bullets don't tumble but i have .625 jump with them seated at book length. i tryed everything and it will not group. the action will get rebarreled to something and the reloading componets are going to get sold.
 

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