155.5 FullBore bullets in an iron sighted garand at 1K?

[Rtheurer]

Lots of responses here from our CMP/NRA XTC and Long Range guys. They have a lot of experience with this type of shooting, HOWEVER, I see some responses that do not apply to this sititation. Hoz is looking to shoot some steel at 1000yds off the bench.. Not an E target, Not a Pulling pit NRA target, Not a COmpetition, Just shoot at some steel at 1000yds.
It does not need to be a Match Grade Garand, It does not need to be a Super Sonic at 1000yds.
Let him send some rounds down range and see if he can hit a steel plate.. he will have a hoot of a good time! Here at our range, I get to see all sorts of stuff shoot at 1000yds that a number of you folks would kringe at the thought of being able to do it. In fact I have two seperate guys who do in fact mess around with the M1 at steel at 1000yds, one guy with a rack grade M1 and his first and successfully attempt was with Ball ammo. I was spotting for him and after taking about 5 rounds or so to get on a 24" plate he went 50% hit ratio or so at 1000yds.... with stupid ball ammo.

The Biggest thing about that.. was the smile on the guys face after we finished.. He had a great time, And I did as well spotting for him.


This is not a CMP or NRA match...Just some plinking...

 

[Doom]

In my experience the weights of the below listed bullets differ from some posted previously for Military ammunition.
M2 Ball - 150 gr Spitzer flat base
M2 AP - 163-164 gr (nominal) Spitzer flat base
M72 Match - 173 gr FMJBT
M118 Special Ball & Match (7.62X51) - 173 gr FMJBT
M852 Match (7.62X51) - 168 gr SMK HPBT
M118LR (7.62X51) - 175 gr SMK HPBT

This is from Hatcher's Notebook. The M2 Ball was 150 gn initially but that was an alloy bullet and when standardized it was changed to recycled battery lead and the specification went to 152 (-3) gn.

 

[akajun]

The M1 garand was only designed for a range of about 500 yards. (books say 440 yards)

that may be , but the navy was using them for 1000yd service rifle matches over the m14. the rational was that the longer sight radius and barrel and the garand was easier to accurize and bed than the 14 until double lugged guns came out.

 

[DocBII]

The armor piercing bullets were around 173 and supposedly they shot the best in a m1. Stick with varget or 4895 powder and you will not hurt your op-rod.

You might want to try a berger 168 hybrid target. In my 1903a3 sniper configuration with 48 gn Varget i get muzzle velocity of 2656. Velocity at 1000 is 1200+ with a come up of 36 moa or 36 clicks on the garand.

David

Good day,

Recommended Berger loads for the M1A, 168 and VV powders:

 

[GotRDid]

This is from Hatcher's Notebook. The M2 Ball was 150 gn initially but that was an alloy bullet and when standardized it was changed to recycled battery lead and the specification went to 152 (-3) gn.

View attachment 1597129

No debating the early production runs of the AP bullets. I will say that shooting Garands for over 25 years, I have purchased 10s of thousands of rounds of surplus ammo through the old DCM (and now CMP) from Greece, Norway, and most of the US made M2 and M2AP.
Lake City, WCC, RA, and found some great berdan primed ammo from Denmark (AMA) through Midway. Tried the KA and PS M2 from Korea, but cleaning for the corrosive primed KA, just like for pre 1952/1953 LC, FA, UT, SL, TW, and DEN M2 was a bit arduous.
I have weighed many pulldown bullets for Handloading from GI Brass back when lots would be offered for sale way back when.
I can say that most of those AP bullets were on the lighter side of 168 grs specified. Perhaps it was a lot issue that was deemed acceptable, tolerance stacks of the components or some unknown anomaly, but the lightest I’ve found was 162 grs (AYR) and heaviest was 165. I suspect the below offering (now out of stock) may have been AYR de-mil.



I am learning new stuff all the time, and I was unaware of Hatcher’s specs, so that’s cool.
I did find this image as well and converted the gram weight to grains for a nominal 165.

 

[hoz53]

Lots of responses here from our CMP/NRA XTC and Long Range guys. They have a lot of experience with this type of shooting, HOWEVER, I see some responses that do not apply to this sititation. Hoz is looking to shoot some steel at 1000yds off the bench.. Not an E target, Not a Pulling pit NRA target, Not a COmpetition, Just shoot at some steel at 1000yds.
It does not need to be a Match Grade Garand, It does not need to be a Super Sonic at 1000yds.
Let him send some rounds down range and see if he can hit a steel plate.. he will have a hoot of a good time! Here at our range, I get to see all sorts of stuff shoot at 1000yds that a number of you folks would kringe at the thought of being able to do it. In fact I have two seperate guys who do in fact mess around with the M1 at steel at 1000yds, one guy with a rack grade M1 and his first and successfully attempt was with Ball ammo. I was spotting for him and after taking about 5 rounds or so to get on a 24" plate he went 50% hit ratio or so at 1000yds.... with stupid ball ammo.

The Biggest thing about that.. was the smile on the guys face after we finished.. He had a great time, And I did as well spotting for him.


This is not a CMP or NRA match...Just some plinking...

OH Yeah-- You hit the nail on the head Theurer. I just wanna hear some bullets smack some steel plates at 1K. That said i do appreciate every answer people have posted for me. i try to learn from all of them. Ive actually done this a few times with the garand.. Id like to Up my hit percentage though. 50% and I would be satisfied . It should be doable---Plates are 36"--rifle is a CMP rebuild with a Criterion barrel--no match built gun but it shoots pretty well at 100 and 200. I think my biggest challenge is my Vision. those 36" plates sure look little at 1K. I know there have been many people before me who have been able to hit the target at 1000 with a garand so ill keep plugging away. Thanks Much

 

[hoz53]

No debating the early production runs of the AP bullets. I will say that shooting Garands for over 25 years, I have purchased 10s of thousands of rounds of surplus ammo through the old DCM (and now CMP) from Greece, Norway, and most of the US made M2 and M2AP.
Lake City, WCC, RA, and found some great berdan primed ammo from Denmark (AMA) through Midway. Tried the KA and PS M2 from Korea, but cleaning for the corrosive primed KA, just like for pre 1952/1953 LC, FA, UT, SL, TW, and DEN M2 was a bit arduous.
I have weighed many pulldown bullets for Handloading from GI Brass back when lots would be offered for sale way back when.
I can say that most of those AP bullets were on the lighter side of 168 grs specified. Perhaps it was a lot issue that was deemed acceptable, tolerance stacks of the components or some unknown anomaly, but the lightest I’ve found was 162 grs (AYR) and heaviest was 165. I suspect the below offering (now out of stock) may have been AYR de-mil.

View attachment 1597366

I am learning new stuff all the time, and I was unaware of Hatcher’s specs, so that’s cool.
I did find this image as well and converted the gram weight to grains for a nominal 165.

View attachment 1597367

alot of great info GotR-- thanks