155.5 FullBore bullets in an iron sighted garand at 1K?

[RegionRat]

FWIW

 

[hoz53]

ok i will thanks. i allready shot some berger and SMKs 274s

155 and a Garand for 1k won’t work, need longer barrel. Use 175’s

 

[hoz53]

They are pushing them at 3000 fps in a bolt gun with 40” barrels too. I would worry about your Op rod trying to get there.
I would think you may have better luck with the 175 class bullets. May even be able to use a 185 Juggernaut with the right powder in a Garand.

thanks for that info- i wasnt sure wat the palma shooters used. i have used 175s allready and will stick with them for now

 

[hoz53]

The armor piercing bullets were around 173 and supposedly they shot the best in a m1. Stick with varget or 4895 powder and you will not hurt your op-rod.

You might want to try a berger 168 hybrid target. In my 1903a3 sniper configuration with 48 gn Varget i get muzzle velocity of 2656. Velocity at 1000 is 1200+ with a come up of 36 moa or 36 clicks on the garand.

David

thats alot of good info especially with the come ups. ive shot 2600 with imr 4064 and 175 smk lately. i think i used 40 up and hit the backer a few times. thanks

 

[hoz53]

The world class shooters you speak of, I assume you are referring to Palma shooters. They have a bullet weight limit some where around 155.5! They would all be shooting much heavier bullets if legal for their use.

Frank

thanks frank- i didnt know that info- yes i meant palma shooters

 

[hoz53]

I would think that either the 168 Target Hybrid or the 169 SMK might be a better option. You should be able to get there without pushing the rifle as hard.

International Palma requires the 155 limit and the shooters I know do not shoot that bullet unless they are shooting in matches under the International Rules.

thanks for the info/ im definately not gonna push the rifle to hard. ill look into those bullets u mention

 

[hoz53]

IIRC the Long Range load for garands was the smk 180 and 4064. All the stuff about bending the op rod has nothing to do with the bullet weight, and all to do with the speed of the powder. I thnk the sierra 175smk would be good as well
Stick with 4895,4064, reloader 15, 748, etc and youll be fine, but getting good accuracy and velocity with those powders going heavier than 180 might be an issue.

thanks aka-- ive got imr4064 ive been using and will prob use some 175 bullet. 168 smk shot good at 100 and 200 but i dont think they are 1000 yd bullets

 

[hoz53]

Do it. They’ll work fine, and you won’t have to wind the rear sight up as far as you would with heavier bullets. This will make it easier to get a decent sight picture.

i prob will try them just to see ehat happens

 

[hoz53]

U need to talk to some older shooters who have experience shooting a Garand or M1A at 1K. The 155.5 Berger is a great bullet but in a bolt gun with a 30 inch bbl.
u will need 175-185 gr bullets in ur shorter bbl and then back them up with IMR 4064 or equivalent. Port pressure in ur gas system is the enemy of ur op rod.
front sight. In order to keep ur rear sight from extending up too far ( it becomes loose in its track) u need to shorten ( lower) the front blade of ur sight. Check with the gunsmiths who specialize in building Garands and M1As they will know how much to shorten it.
Another reason to shorten the front blade and reduce ur rear Sight elevation is to keep ur cheek on the rear Buttstock.
Using a Garand or M1A for 1 K shooting is not just picking a bullet and banging away. Ever shot 1K with a post front sight? Chances are u cannot see the bull due to the amount of atmosphere between u and the target. That black bull disappears into the tan background and turns invisible. That is why many used a frame hold to try n hit center. If u can’t see the bull u also can’t read the number boards to ensure u are shooting on ur own target.
well, I have given u enough to chew on. Don’t let any of the above discourage u though. It is a real accomplishment to see ur target go down at 1K and put all ur shots on ur own target. It’s what real riflemen can do!

hi bob-- i have shot this garand several times at 1k recently. i know what you meen about having trouble seeing the bull. plus im 68 and vision isnt so good. the range i go to doesnt have carriers or target frames. i put some white paper up 8' wide by 7' tall. then i aimed at the base of the paper. it seemed like at that range my front site was about the width of that paper. hit it a few times but definately not in a group. ive been using a contact lense lately that has enabled me to shoot alot more accurate with irons at 100 and 200 so i thought it mite help at longer distances. we will see. i actually hit the 36" plates a couple times but not with most of my shots. im using imr4064 and so far have used 175 smk and berger 175s. i will look into getting an extra front site to file down. thanks for all the info. Kim H

 

[hoz53]

ok

155 and a Garand for 1k won’t work, need longer barrel. Use 175’s

thanks

 

[hoz53]

Stick too and work a load for you Garand at 1K with the 165 to 175 grain bullets, not the 155.5.

ok thanks

 

[hoz53]

This for sure. I would pick heavier bullets over speed all day long with the Garand.

ok thanks

 

[hoz53]

Interesting thread.....definitely some inaccuracies about Palma shooters and Palma shooting here. Could we talk a few of yall into trying Palma? Not only would you get a few things a bit more accurate, you might find shooting 155s with irons is a total hoot!

id definately like to try it but it may not be feasable for me.

 

[hoz53]

I'd also look at the 177 Sierra.

ok thanks

 

[hoz53]

A typical Garand? As in not match prepped?

Don't get me wrong, I love a good Garand, but you may want to stop and think about how big the target will need to be at 1000 yards for a typical Garand.

You could check the ballistics on this 155 Fullbore bullet and see that you would be abusing your Garand to get it to perform at 1000. Those are for a horse of a different color....

Any of the modern match boat tails like the 175 SMK or even the unicorns like the 169 SMK can go out past 600 yards in terms of stable flight, but those are typically being shot from capable match guns, not Garands.

Back when the Garand ruled the XTC firing lines, those rigs were match prepped in order to hold the X-ring at 600 yards, and that required lots of TLC on the part of the gunsmith and skills from the shooter.

Fast forward to launching 175s from your Garand to 1000 yards and your hit percentage on the standard target black of 6 MOA (+/- 3MOA) is going to look like a shotgun pattern unless we are talking about a rare gun.

Now if your Garand is a known match prepped gun that holds 10 ring or better at 600, then go right ahead and give the 175s a try at 1000. Life can be short, no reason not to have a little fun.

No, they won't really work for you.
(ETA: I didn't take the time to read the other responses first, so mine adds little other than to corroborate that unless the Garand is match prepped for 1000 yard work, it isn't really as much fun as using at 400 or less. CMP Garand matches are at 200 yards for good reasons.)

thanks for all the good info. this garand isnt match conditioned but its one of the rebuilt ones from CMP. it is surprising how good it shoots. that said i wont be disappointed with whatever accuracy i get. im definately not gonna abuse the gun with extra heavy loads. I will stick with the 169 to 175 range of bullets for this project. mabie ill end up going to a garand match.

 

[hoz53]

You have Received some great advice, Doom and of course Bob pretty much Nailed it. The 168 Hybrid and 169 Sierra, even the old 175gr SMK which pretty much replaced the old 180gr MK as it has a higher BC would be my choice if I were to give it a try. Your not needing to stay super Sonic shooting at a steel gong, so no need to push it hard. The bullets listed above handle that Transonic Stage very very well and are very predictable if the Rifle likes your load.
The absolute problem for you is going to be the elevation you will need at 1000yards with the Rack and pinion style rear sight. You can expect to be up around 35 to 45 MOA from a 100 yard zero!! That rascal is going to be on its last little gear in the back. To solve this with the M1A's we used to file the front sight down in the front as Bob pointed out so that we could put on our normal 600 yard elevation and be zeroed at 1000yds. These rifles where dedicated for 600, 800, 900, 1000yds.
If you don't do this... the rear sight is very unstable ( wiggles around left and right) when its run all the way up. This is a time when you NEED more precision, not less! So keep this all in mind.

thanks theurer - thats much good info- i have been using 175 bullets so this thread convinced me to stay with them. i have shot this garand at 1k lately and raised sight 40 clicks to try and hit a 7'x8' target. the rear sight seemed pretty solid at that height. but its definately at max height. im going to try and get an extra front site i can file down. thanks again

 

[Bamban]

@hoz53 Grab some 168 Hybrids, load them long. I've used them at 1K NRA LR targets with double lugs M1As, and with my McCoy 308 Garands.

Check out 2000MR website load data, they are spot on. The Juggernauts also ran well at 1K at a lower speed compared to the 168 Hybrids.

Send me a PM, I'll discuss loads with you.

 

[GotRDid]

In my experience the weights of the below listed bullets differ from some posted previously for Military ammunition.
M2 Ball - 150 gr Spitzer flat base
M2 AP - 163-164 gr (nominal) Spitzer flat base
M72 Match - 173 gr FMJBT
M118 Special Ball & Match (7.62X51) - 173 gr FMJBT
M852 Match (7.62X51) - 168 gr SMK HPBT
M118LR (7.62X51) - 175 gr SMK HPBT

 

[hoz53]

@hoz53 Grab some 168 Hybrids, load them long. I've used them at 1K NRA LR targets with double lugs M1As, and with my McCoy 308 Garands.

Check out 2000MR website load data, they are spot on. The Juggernauts also ran well at 1K at a lower speed compared to the 168 Hybrids.

Send me a PM, I'll discuss loads with you.

ok ill try them thanks

 

[hoz53]

In my experience the weights of the below listed bullets differ from some posted previously for Military ammunition.
M2 Ball - 150 gr Spitzer flat base
M2 AP - 163-164 gr (nominal) Spitzer flat base
M72 Match - 173 gr FMJBT
M118 Special Ball & Match (7.62X51) - 173 gr FMJBT
M852 Match (7.62X51) - 168 gr SMK HPBT
M118LR (7.62X51) - 175 gr SMK HPBT

thanks for that info GoTR