153gr A-tip issue

[Ron Gorski]

8 twist?

Bartein 5R, 7.5T

 

[sbhooper]

I don't like the expense of the 153, but my buddy gave me a box of seconds that he bought at Hornady. I shot them close and out to 530 yards. They shot great. Not a single failure from my 24-inch Criterion (Creed) at 2675 fps. The penetrated so deeply in my sand back stops, that we could not retrieve any of them. Definitely not a game bullet!

 

[whatwind?]

Bartein 5R, 7.5T

about 275,000 RPM....will be interested to see how Berger holds up at same

 

[rardoin]

I feel that Hornady has given overly conservative numbers for the needed stability for the A-tips (at least that is my experience in the 190's). Perhaps a 8tw would work fine and maybe help the bullet to hold together? I feel other factors generating heat are at play though. Over 500 down the tube and no problems yet. With the insane BC of these bullets there is no reason to run them at the higher velocities.

 

[hambone1971]

I've shot a few hundred now in my Savage 12FV and my Savage LRP with no problems with 1 in 8 twist. They group a little better than the 147 ELD-Ms I was using before. Not the everyday piss em away plinking bullet but for the utmost in accuracy I like em. HB

 

[Ron Gorski]

I received the shipping label from Hornady today. They didn't say how many of the 153 Atips to return. I have about 400. So, I will return all of them. I'll see what happens and what response I get.

 

[MoaFlat]

We have a serious problem with roughly 10% of our 6.5mm 153gr ATIP blowing up well before 1400 and 2K ELR. Estimate from video in first 400 to 600 yards turn to white cloud. My client now switching to new Berger 153.5gr in spite of those that do reach target group exceptionally well. Lost two matches and calling it a day. No feedback or interest from Hornady which adds to the disappointment. Using 6.5-284 Norma, 7.5 twist, 31" Carbon Wrap Barrel, MV 3020, Norma Brass, BR2 Primer, not unusual to shoot single ragged hole to 1/4 minute at 100. Custom Hybrid Rifle. My competitive ELR match clients use over several thousand projectiles per year per match rifle - sure that's small beer to Hornday. However, paying a premium price for projectiles that fail should be worrisome for them - where most clients are not so concerned with a large price premium than with losing a match. I provide them the load development and after the client roll their own. This blow up failure is beginning to reach a level of arrogance for lack of support not experienced before. In spite of the ATIP superior performance with the 300 Family ATIPs 250 and 230 for 300 PRC and 300 NORMA MAG the 153 6.5MM blow-ups are turning clients away from using them. Any one else out experiencing same?

 

[Ned Ludd]

Thought for the day: BC is meaningless when the bullet doesn't actually make it to the target.

 

[Relentless 6.5]

We have a serious problem with roughly 10% of our 6.5mm 153gr ATIP blowing up well before 1400 and 2K ELR. Estimate from video in first 400 to 600 yards turn to white cloud. My client now switching to new Berger 153.5gr in spite of those that do reach target group exceptionally well. Lost two matches and calling it a day. No feedback or interest from Hornady which adds to the disappointment. Using 6.5-284 Norma, 7.5 twist, 31" Carbon Wrap Barrel, MV 3020, Norma Brass, BR2 Primer, not unusual to shoot single ragged hole to 1/4 minute at 100. Custom Hybrid Rifle. My competitive ELR match clients use over several thousand projectiles per year per match rifle - sure that's small beer to Hornday. However, paying a premium price for projectiles that fail should be worrisome for them - where most clients are not so concerned with a large price premium than with losing a match. I provide them the load development and after the client roll their own. This blow up failure is beginning to reach a level of arrogance for lack of support not experienced before. In spite of the ATIP superior performance with the 300 Family ATIPs 250 and 230 for 300 PRC and 300 NORMA MAG the 153 6.5MM blow-ups are turning clients away from using them. Any one else out experiencing same?

Just started having issues with the 6.5 ATips, after about 400 rounds of the 500 I bought the last box of 100 I started getting flyers and shots that never reached the target. Couldn’t figure out what was going on even after clean and checking every aspect of the rifle, as well as checking the load and what ever I could think of. I put a target up at 80 yards and that told the story, these bullets are deforming or just completely coming apart some of the bullet holes look like a Cheeto cheese puff went through and one just splattered. I talked with Hornady manufacturing tech and sent him some pictures, no response as of yet. Here are some pics, when the bullet held together it was not grouping consistently. Also found a complete half of a bullet with no lead in it that was just laying on the surface of a gravel mound a few yards behind the target.

 

[Area51]

I blew up 5-153 tips out of a 260AI at 2880 FPS. contacted Hornady. They said they wanted to test some of my bullets. Said they would email a mailing label but that was over a week ago. Contact Hornady. They need to know that their bullets aren't doing so well.

More BS from the low end consumer grade company.
This has been going on for years.

 

[Bill Norris]

More BS from the low end consumer grade company.
This has been going on for years.

Recently tried to get them to shoot for a friend of mine in his 260AI. Same issue as I had before sometime ago when I tried them in my 260AI. Way too slow and showing pressure. It is a "blow out brass bullet" only for me now.

 

[Rob01]

I love the 153 ATips. I shoot them in my 6.5 Creedmoor at 2680fps and have shot it to 1274 yards in matches and they do very well in the wind. I am only a lowly PRS style match shooter but know accuracy.

 

[FrankG]

2880 with a 153 in a CM is way hot

^^^^ what he said.

Way to fast. Realistically you should be around 2700fps like I posted earlier.

 

[FrankG]

Barrel doesn't have a ton of rounds on it (around 600 rounds) but I also have another 6.5CM chambered barrel that I've shot in some local PRS matches and out to a 1k yards. 6.75 twist is what is in that one barrel.

Again I'm running the 150SMK and the 153 Atips at 2700fps. I've had zero bullet failures out of this barrel and twist rate combo. The 135 ATips are just over 2800fps.

Why did I go with such a fast twist (6.75) because we made the accuracy test barrels for Sierra when they we're working on the 150SMK and twist wasn't finalized on what was going to be needed for that new bullet. The thought was a 7 twist might not be fast enough. So I wanted to get a barrel in the works so it was done by the time the bullets where available.

Yes depending on the bullet and velocity I'm dancing around 285k rpm to just over 300k rpm and I will tell you I'm on borrowed time with barrel life and the twist rate and bullet failures happening but it's not a bullet problem. You have a combination of cleaning, barrel wear, heat on the fired bullet going down the barrel and bullet rpm.

A good friend of mine on this forum who has been around the block sent me a real cool article a couple of years back. It was on how hot a bullet was when it left the barrel.

A 30cal bullet at 2750fps the temps are as follows: base of the bullet was at 932 degrees F, the sides of the bullet were at 608F and the tip at 338F.

For rough numbers... Lead melts at 620F, copper at 1984F. The flame temperature at the throat of the chamber is normally around 2200-4000F. Ammo running at high pressures... I'm hearing numbers pushing up around 7000F.

We all expect bullets to perform magic in my opinion. Now throw in the factors of barrel wear, the barrels actual bore and groove size, twist rate, rate of fire, bullet rpm, heat etc...

I don't expect my 6.75 twist barrel to make it to 2k rounds. I'll be lucky if it makes it 1200 before I start seeing issues.

 

[Ron Gorski]

So a shooter today had Bullets not making it to the target at 600. Running a 6.5creedmore with 8 twist 153gr. We didn’t know he had issue so we couldn’t see them blowing up or coming apart. Claims running around 2880 fps. Has anyone had issue with these bullets coming apart?? No one else dropped shots on that target. Was drilling the X ring and 10 ring then nothing. It isn’t the target as another two shooters shot on same target with zero issues. Sensor was not even picking up shot off target near the frame

thanks for any info

I had problems with the first 6.5 A tips that came out. The bullets were blowing up at about the same velocity that you are shooting in a 260 Rem AI. Contacted Hornady and they issued a return shipping label for 400 bullets. They sent 400 new A tips and the problem was gone.

 

[STOMP442]

Hornady is absolute junk. From their bullets to their brass and has been for the last 30 years since I have been reloading. Their marketing however is top tier and goes to show what a fancy box and a shiny label can do.

 

[LCazador]

While this is a post that originates in 2020 I'd like to add that we had a similar experience with 153 grain bullets in a 6.5PRC and an 8 twist barrel. Poor stabilization. Cranking up the speed and RPM does nothing to stabilize a bullet better. It's length not weight that you're stabilizing. Thanks Frank for your valuable time.

 

[Tangent]

I've always wondered why some of these high BC bullets weren't being talked about and more importantly used more. It does seem if you really push it with the long and heavy for calibre bullets it can get interesting. No free lunches.

 

[Rob01]

Have never had any issues with the 153 ATips in my 6.5 Creed. They are very accurate. Not sure why some do but I will keep using them.