150 SMKs and the 6.5 x 284 ***UPDATE***

[wboggs]

Keeping with the theme of blowing up bullets...After many years of shooting I have blown up a few bullets! 223/223AI, 6PPC, etc...shooting light bullets with fast twist as we all know it can happen. 50-55 gr ...60-65 gr...all at 3400-3600 and fast twist (1:7), my friends and I have blown up many. The consensus amongst us became bullet spin rate. With the calculation of velocity x 720 divided by twist rate...we all decided that once rpm is above 300,000 it starts to become anybody's guess. I've also seen lightweight 308 bullets blown up with fast twist. This may not be the reason here and very well could be rifling. Rardoin will probably confirm that for us. With what can be gathered from these posts...allow me to put together this compulation.
In getting the info out to us ShootDots has plenty of reason for concern...look at the rpm from these shooters.
ShootDots...blew up....2930...7.5 tw...281,000 rpm
Park Ranger..............2780...7.5 tw...267,000 rpm
SWD....coated bullets..2800...7.0 tw...288,000 rpm
Longrange57.............2940....8.0 tw...265,000 rpm
Rardoin....................2950...8.0 tw...266,000 rpm
1shot.......................2960...7.5..tw..284,000 rpm
2980....7.5.tw...286,000 rpm
3100...7.5 tw...298,000 rpm
wboggs...................3100...7.5 tw...298,000 rpm
tzaun......blew up.....2845...7.25 tw...283,000 rpm
bbarber25...............2745...8.0 tw....247,000 rpm
If I missed something or made a mistake...please forgive! With the fast twist barrels, we are closing in on that magic 300,000 range where anything can happen with excess heat and maybe a barrel thats tighter than another one. It very well could be barrel and rifling, but I would have to conclude that we are also closing in on the spin rate threshold for this bullet. Some may handle 300-320,000, others may not! To the contrary I've also seen some very small calibers shoot at 340,000 with no known problems....but probably not in competition! This thing has got us all scratching our heads because the last thing I want to do is have it happen in a match....especially on the very last shot! That would make me ill!

Very well thought out article.
I shot some 5 shot groups today, 5 shots in 5min, then 3min cool down. Outside temp was 88 F and mv was 3116. Barrel did not get extremely hot under these condition. No bullet failures to date with about 75.bullets fired. Not exactly match conditions but apparently I am on the edge with rotational velocity.
The bullets are accurate, grouping just under 1" at 300. I will try to slow them down to the 2900-2950 range and see if they are still as accurate as the 3100 load.
Bill

 

[Longrange57]

Very well thought out article.
I shot some 5 shot groups today, 5 shots in 5min, then 3min cool down. Outside temp was 88 F and mv was 3116. Barrel did not get extremely hot under these condition. No bullet failures to date with about 75.bullets fired. Not exactly match conditions but apparently I am on the edge with rotational velocity.
The bullets are accurate, grouping just under 1" at 300. I will try to slow them down to the 2900-2950 range and see if they are still as accurate as the 3100 load.
Bill

Bill, One thing I failed to mention is that SWD and 1Shot are using coated bullets which could be a huge help if rifling is a problem!

 

[wboggs]

Bill, One thing I failed to mention is that SWD and 1Shot are using coated bullets which could be a huge help if rifling is a problem!

Thanks, my bullets are not coated but I have a 5r barrel. I have been told that the military rifles have a Bartlein 5r with a 7t but the creedmoor velocities with the 140's are in the 2700 range. As far as I know. they do not use the 150's. As you know, Sierra lists a 7.5t but I would like to see whether they tested the 6.5-284 with a 7.5. Berger has told me they are introducing a new 163gr hunting bullet this fall but it has a thin jacket and they do not recommend it for target use.
Bill

 

[Longrange57]

Thanks, my bullets are not coated but I have a 5r barrel. I have been told that the military rifles have a Bartlein 5r with a 7t but the creedmoore velocities with the 140's are in the 2700 range. As far as I know. they do not use the 150's. As you know, Sierra lists a 7.5t but I would like to see whether they tested the 6.5-284 with a 7.5. Berger has told me they are introducing a new 163gr hunting bullet this fall but it has a thin jacket and they do not recommend it for target use.
Bill

I also have some 5R's in 223 and 308 that are great barrels and probably is what is needed in this application with the 150 smk. I have a 6.5 5R on the rack and will probably put it on the 6.5 x 284 some day. The Kreiger's and Brux have done well! In fact the Brux on my 6.5 x 55 is awesome...at lower velocity of course!

 

[Longrange57]

Very well thought out article.
I shot some 5 shot groups today, 5 shots in 5min, then 3min cool down. Outside temp was 88 F and mv was 3116. Barrel did not get extremely hot under these condition. No bullet failures to date with about 75.bullets fired. Not exactly match conditions but apparently I am on the edge with rotational velocity.
The bullets are accurate, grouping just under 1" at 300. I will try to slow them down to the 2900-2950 range and see if they are still as accurate as the 3100 load.
Bill

Bill, that was good shootin!

 

[1shot]

I just got into my 2nd 500 ct. box of these bullets. For kicks and grins, I decided to do my usual QC test. OAL, bearing surface length, diameter at the pressure ring and weight.
I knew from the previous box the the OAL varied by .013 and this box was no different. The diameter was also the same at .26435. I proceeded to trim all the bullets to the shortest length I found, then weighted them on my FX120 scale. The bullets weighted either 149.84 or 149.86. Finally I took the bullets to my bearing surface comparator and quit after 20 bullets. To be blunt, I got tired of seeing .0000 come up on the digital indicator. At first I thought I didn't have it set up properly, and I even tried to make it read differently, but finally concluded that they are just that good! I have done these evals for custom bullet makers that aren't as good as these SMK's. Sierra has really stepped up their game, an I for one am happy to see it.
I hope this helps,

Lloyd

 

[wboggs]

I just got into my 2nd 500 ct. box of these bullets. For kicks and grins, I decided to do my usual QC test. OAL, bearing surface length, diameter at the pressure ring and weight.
I knew from the previous box the the OAL varied by .013 and this box was no different. The diameter was also the same at .26435. I proceeded to trim all the bullets to the shortest length I found, then weighted them on my FX120 scale. The bullets weighted either 149.84 or 149.86. Finally I took the bullets to my bearing surface comparator and quit after 20 bullets. To be blunt, I got tired of seeing .0000 come up on the digital indicator. At first I thought I didn't have it set up properly, and I even tried to make it read differently, but finally concluded that they are just that good! I have dome these evals for custom bullet makers that aren't as good as these SMK's. Sierra has really stepped up their game, an I for one am happy to see it.
I hope this helps,

Lloyd

Lloyd
I have found the 150's to be exactly as you described, very high quality without the need to sort them. I was so shocked when I first evaluated them that I bought another 500 just to be sure I got some more before anything changed. Loading length for me is base of case to ogive and the numbers are remarkably consistent.
Hopefully, any blow up problems can be identified and the bullets can be used in matches. It could be a very competitive bullet in 6.5mm where things are dominated by the high quality 7mms without blow up issues.
Finally, Lioyd, what is the lot number on your latest purchase?
Thanks
Bill

I just got into my 2nd 500 ct. box of these bullets. For kicks and grins, I decided to do my usual QC test. OAL, bearing surface length, diameter at the pressure ring and weight.
I knew from the previous box the the OAL varied by .013 and this box was no different. The diameter was also the same at .26435. I proceeded to trim all the bullets to the shortest length I found, then weighted them on my FX120 scale. The bullets weighted either 149.84 or 149.86. Finally I took the bullets to my bearing surface comparator and quit after 20 bullets. To be blunt, I got tired of seeing .0000 come up on the digital indicator. At first I thought I didn't have it set up properly, and I even tried to make it read differently, but finally concluded that they are just that good! I have dome these evals for custom bullet makers that aren't as good as these SMK's. Sierra has really stepped up their game, an I for one am happy to see it.
I hope this helps,

Lloyd

 

[Longrange57]

I just got into my 2nd 500 ct. box of these bullets. For kicks and grins, I decided to do my usual QC test. OAL, bearing surface length, diameter at the pressure ring and weight.
I knew from the previous box the the OAL varied by .013 and this box was no different. The diameter was also the same at .26435. I proceeded to trim all the bullets to the shortest length I found, then weighted them on my FX120 scale. The bullets weighted either 149.84 or 149.86. Finally I took the bullets to my bearing surface comparator and quit after 20 bullets. To be blunt, I got tired of seeing .0000 come up on the digital indicator. At first I thought I didn't have it set up properly, and I even tried to make it read differently, but finally concluded that they are just that good! I have dome these evals for custom bullet makers that aren't as good as these SMK's. Sierra has really stepped up their game, an I for one am happy to see it.
I hope this helps,

Lloyd

Good work there 1Shot!

 

[TZaun]

Good write-up Lloyd. I never checked the bearing surface lengths on mine. I sorted out base to ogive. I don't know how to point and I didn't want to mess with those nice looking tips by trimming. My base to ogive measurements (on my comparator) varied from .7755" to .7815". The .777" bin filled up fastest, so that's what I loaded up for my match. I weighed all those (on my A&D FX120) and kept the 150.00 to 150.06. I had a range of 149.94 to 150.28. I never checked, but I would like to think that by weight-sorting I obtained more consistent OAL bullets. From what I just learned from you, I believe that to be true. I wish I had more time to test the sorted out bullets against all the outliers to see if, or how much, difference there'd be on paper at 1,000. These bullets look like they will shoot pretty good with some work to sort them, or even them out. Whatever it is with the jackets coming apart, they are so close to being right since not everyone is having problems with them. More time and testing by everyone should start to sort things out further. I'll include my lot # in case it comes into question later. There's a white sticker on my boxes of 500 and it has 2 numbers. They are:

0118129339595

011864308

 

[Longrange57]

Good write-up Lloyd. I never checked the bearing surface lengths on mine. I sorted out base to ogive. I don't know how to point and I didn't want to mess with those nice looking tips by trimming. My base to ogive measurements (on my comparator) varied from .7755" to .7815". The .777" bin filled up fastest, so that's what I loaded up for my match. I weighed all those (on my A&D FX120) and kept the 150.00 to 150.06. I had a range of 149.94 to 150.28. I never checked, but I would like to think that by weight-sorting I obtained more consistent OAL bullets. From what I just learned from you, I believe that to be true. I wish I had more time to test the sorted out bullets against all the outliers to see if, or how much, difference there'd be on paper at 1,000. These bullets look like they will shoot pretty good with some work to sort them, or even them out. Whatever it is with the jackets coming apart, they are so close to being right since not everyone is having problems with them. More time and testing by everyone should start to sort things out further. I'll include my lot # in case it comes into question later. There's a white sticker on my boxes of 500 and it has 2 numbers. They are:

0118129339595

011864308

I have the same 9595 number on the last box of 500 that I bought. The 2nd # which I think is the lot#...011864340. My ranges on weight have been running 149.84--150.16. I sort them into 3 groups. Just last week I purposefully picked a high and low and threw them into a group. It shot right with the other groups which were .900-1.300 across 4 groups at 300 yards. This was with the 6.5 x 55 Brux barrel. Although I have always sorted by weight, I'm not sure that it's not a waste of time with these bullets. I finally quit sorting the 140 berger hyb. I have not gone the extra mile like 1Shot but I'm sure it's probably worth it for the extra few points!

 

[1shot]

I have found that the bullets that are long will shoot within the group out to 600 yds. At 1K it’s an entirely different story. For those of you that don’t trim/point you can always send them to me.
I hope this helps,

Lloyd

 

[wboggs]

I have found that the bullets that are long will shoot within the group out to 600 yds. At 1K it’s an entirely different story. For those of you that don’t trim/point you can always send them to me.
I hope this helps,

Lloyd

My latest lot # is 011864280, the lowest and maybe earlier. If so, quality is holding up.
You guys are better shooters than I am. With my eyes, I can't tell the difference when I get past 600 and some days the 600 yr target is an educated guess.
These bullets have real potential once things get sorted out.
Bill

 

[1shot]

I just got the opportunity to get the lot # from my two boxes. The top box was the first 500 and came from Graff. The bottom box came last week from Powder Valley.
I think as this thread evolves and more shooters gain experience with this bullet, certain parameters have begun to surface. So far, everyone that has blown up bullets have been un-coated, and have been shot out of 4 groove barrels with velocity above 2,900 FPS.
Fellow shooters, please chime in with additional data to further express the limitations you have found.
I hope this helps,

Lloyd

 

[Longrange57]

I just got the opportunity to get the lot # from my two boxes. The top box was the first 500 and came from Graff. The bottom box came last week from Powder Valley.
I think as this thread evolves and more shooters gain experience with this bullet, certain parameters have begun to surface. So far, everyone that has blown up bullets have been un-coated, and have been shot out of 4 groove barrels with velocity above 2,900 FPS.
Fellow shooters, please chime in with additional data to further express the limitations you have found.
I hope this helps,

Lloyd

Another update with 150SMK! I shot this morning at 73F with 6.5 x 284. Decided to make a few changes to confirm some things and fire form some brass. I switched some loads over to H4350 from what I had been shooting with H1000. The H1000 looks promising and will definately shoot, however this morning shooting a node at 2925 with 49.6 H4350 I shot the best groups I've shot with this rifle to date with brass that had been reloaded twice. I first fired 21 shots in groups of 3 while fire forming new brass. Let barrel cool for about 10 min. I then shot 3.. three shot groups .500", with .23 vertical, .560", with .300 vertical, and .800", with .7 vertical. I purposefully continued to shoot 2 five shot groups without cooldown. I didn't want to kill the barrel because normally I let it cool 10-12 minutes in between five shot groups. I shot a .750 and a .800 group at 300 yards. These are the best groups I've seen yet with this rifle. Very litttle vertical and barrel was really warm. That was 40 shots all at 300 yards in less than half the time that I normally shoot. I did this to try and simulate what you guys are doing by shooting long strings with hot barrels. I realize that I may not have put the barrel through what some of you do....and no it was not 95F. This was a 8tw Kreiger 26 inch barrel. Still not at 3000-3100 as some are but I had no failures and holes were like a paper punch! Absolutely no wind...perfect conditions! May be the reason that H4350 shot better than H1000....not sure. With both powders I am very pleased. Not sure if this helps the cause or gives anymore data toward bullet blowups...but at these speeds I have lots of confidence. Especially after the many that I have already put down range! Barrel now has about 160 through it!

 

[wboggs]

Another update with 150SMK! I shot this morning at 73F with 6.5 x 284. Decided to make a few changes to confirm some things and fire form some brass. I switched some loads over to H4350 from what I had been shooting with H1000. The H1000 looks promising and will definately shoot, however this morning shooting a node at 2925 with 49.6 H4350 I shot the best groups I've shot with this rifle to date with brass that had been reloaded twice. I first fired 21 shots in groups of 3 while fire forming new brass. Let barrel cool for about 10 min. I then shot 3.. three shot groups .500", with .23 vertical, .560", with .300 vertical, and .800", with .7 vertical. I purposefully continued to shoot 2 five shot groups without cooldown. I didn't want to kill the barrel because normally I let it cool 10-12 minutes in between five shot groups. I shot a .750 and a .800 group at 300 yards. These are the best groups I've seen yet with this rifle. Very litttle vertical and barrel was really warm. That was 40 shots all at 300 yards in less than half the time that I normally shoot. I did this to try and simulate what you guys are doing by shooting long strings with hot barrels. I realize that I may not have put the barrel through what some of you do....and no it was not 95F. This was a 8tw Kreiger 26 inch barrel. Still not at 3000-3100 as some are but I had no failures and holes were like a paper punch! Absolutely no wind...perfect conditions! May be the reason that H4350 shot better than H1000....not sure. With both powders I am very pleased. Not sure if this helps the cause or gives anymore data toward bullet blowups...but at these speeds I have lots of confidence. Especially after the many that I have already put down range! Barrel now has about 160 through it!

 

[wboggs]

You are confirming a couple issues First, the bullets are accurate and second, the 8t barrels seem to be doing well. I would think a .75" 300yd grp with a 2935 velocity would make most shooters very happy. I'm going to try a load at that velocity in my PCR. How far off the rifling are you?
Good shooting.
Bill

 

[Longrange57]

You are confirming a couple issues First, the bullets are accurate and second, the 8t barrels seem to be doing well. I would think a .75" 300yd grp with a 2935 velocity would make most shooters very happy. I'm going to try a load at that velocity in my PCR. How far off the rifling are you?
Good shooting.
Bill

Bill, these were .005 off

 

[rardoin]

Bill, these were .005 off

Interesting....my Bart. 8tw, RL-23 and 16, at 2920-2940's like them at 0.005- .008" off the lands as well. In the lands at 0.010" is decent also.

 

[wboggs]

Interesting....my Bart. 8tw, RL-23 and 16, at 2920-2940's like them at 0.005- .008" off the lands as well. In the lands at 0.010" is decent also.

I tried some of my 31

Interesting....my Bart. 8tw, RL-23 and 16, at 2920-2940's like them at 0.005- .008" off the lands as well. In the lands at 0.010" is decent also.

Bill, these were .005 off

 

[Longrange57]

Interesting....my Bart. 8tw, RL-23 and 16, at 2920-2940's like them at 0.005- .008" off the lands as well. In the lands at 0.010" is decent also.

Rardoin, I also run them at .010 jam with 6.5 x 47 and swede! I think you and I have found a sweet spot! I have 4 different barrels that shoot these bullets really well.