Has anyone been sucessful in shooting the 115 vld's? I have some concern trying to rebarrel to shoot them. I currently shoot a dasher with 105 vld and 108. The 105's can be a little finiky. Didn't know if someone had a consistent recipe for the longer 115's. It seems most of the people shooting 115's are shooting the dtac's or tangent ogive bullets. Suggestions on twist rate and case would be great. Trying to come up with a better "mouse trap" for 1K shooting. I am already getting 2950-3050 with my dasher. I have tried to get the long 7mm vld's to shoot in a 284 and have some concern that the 115 might be as touchy to get in tune.
115 VLD
- Thread starter canderson
- Start date
Chris, I shoot the DTAC 115's that i trim and repoint with RL-15 they run at 2925 in the low ones at 1 hundred and over 3000 with RL-17 and VV550 they shoot a little bigger. This is with a Dasher out of three different barrels, and at 1K it will shoot small 5 shot groups 4 and under and ten shot groups 5,6,and 7".......jim
I'm also shooting the DTac's in a 6mm Crusader at 3200 fps using a 1-7.5 twist. My next barrel is a 1-7.8 (just to be different)
I think I read on here or the Snipers hide that the Dtac's are less prone to blowing up at extreme velocities. I have some 115 Bergers but have never got around to testing them.
I think I read on here or the Snipers hide that the Dtac's are less prone to blowing up at extreme velocities. I have some 115 Bergers but have never got around to testing them.
canderson said:
Different sources use different "sticks" to measure with. It's really hard to get a meaningful comparison unless you know how various numbers were derived.
Brian Litz has done an astounding amount of work towards sorting all this out over the past few years. The latest edition of his book on ballistics gives a G1 BC for the DTAC 115 of 0.559 @ 3000 fps, 0.579 for the Berger 115 VLD.
More useful might be the G7 BC's for both: 0.274 vs. 0.279. Nominal stability for both in a 1:8 is 1.43 vs. 1.21... leading one to intuit the Bergers need a significantly faster twist, maybe 1:7.5 or faster yet.
Chris
If you would like to try a few let me know, I have some here at the house I can give you to test. I shot mine in a 6mm Super X now known as the 6SLR with a 1:8 Cut rifle Bartlein down here in the south with no issues. If Memory serves me I believe I was only pushing them around 2980 to 3000 fps.
If you dont mind a little advice... I believe a More accurate rifle bullet combo is more important than one that bucks the wind and is on its rotational, preasure, and stability max limit. There is no free lunch. You just have to get more trigger time and learn to read the wind. Consistant Accuracy is the king.
Your welcome to get a sample of bullets from me anytime. just drop me a line.
Missed ya Sunday at the match. Lots of Harvestin going on I hear.
RussT
If you would like to try a few let me know, I have some here at the house I can give you to test. I shot mine in a 6mm Super X now known as the 6SLR with a 1:8 Cut rifle Bartlein down here in the south with no issues. If Memory serves me I believe I was only pushing them around 2980 to 3000 fps.
If you dont mind a little advice... I believe a More accurate rifle bullet combo is more important than one that bucks the wind and is on its rotational, preasure, and stability max limit. There is no free lunch. You just have to get more trigger time and learn to read the wind. Consistant Accuracy is the king.
Your welcome to get a sample of bullets from me anytime. just drop me a line.
Missed ya Sunday at the match. Lots of Harvestin going on I hear.
RussT
Three barrels, same load, shot at 1k same results. The berger shot lower than the DTAC.and with more wind drift. i hope you like them, i use them to fire forming. The DTAC's shoot very small, the last 10 IBS 1k matches the aggs,are at 4.7. Not a record but close, so again i say the DTAC's shoot and they are pointed. So G1 or what ever what happens at the target is what counts.......jim
spclark said:
In the article on the 6XC using DTAC 115 here - http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/6xc/
"BALLISTICS: The 115-grain DTAC has approximately 10 points lower BC than a 142gr 6.5mm Sierra. Everybody’s BC calculations vary so I believe this is the best way to evaluate it against the 142gr 6.5 Sierra. (Also if you look at the Berger 115gr 6mm keep in mind that Bergers BC’s are not conservative at all.) This means that if you shoot the DTAC 115 at 3000 fps verses the Sierra 142 at 2950 fps then the drift at 1000 yards is virtually the same.
[Editor's Note: Henry Childs has confirmed the BC figure David is proposing. We suggest you use a .585 BC for the 115gr DTAC.]"
I have also seen the newer Hbn coated DTAC 115s listed with a BC of .595 now.
There is weirdness with 'DTAC' bullets. Originally it was a 115smk. That's all.
Then it went to 117gr DTAC, which didn't work out. Now there's a 111gr pointed smk called 115DTAC, but the DTAC ammo is using a 115smk..
The whole of DTAC merchandising is a misguided debacle IMO(and I support my share of Tubb products).
Then there is the 115VLD BC comparison, without accounting for different standards of reporting.
Different 'measuring sticks' as mentioned.
Berger's BCs are normalized over expected velocity range. Tubb isn't doing this & neither did Henry Childs..
A VLD BC is always higher than a same weight SMK(unless tipped).
Of course there are always prices to pay for one edge or another.
I don't see how they could easily be compared. Tubb had Sierra make the 115s for him & I don't know that you can actually buy them un-DTACinated, from Sierra
Then it went to 117gr DTAC, which didn't work out. Now there's a 111gr pointed smk called 115DTAC, but the DTAC ammo is using a 115smk..
The whole of DTAC merchandising is a misguided debacle IMO(and I support my share of Tubb products).
Then there is the 115VLD BC comparison, without accounting for different standards of reporting.
Different 'measuring sticks' as mentioned.
Berger's BCs are normalized over expected velocity range. Tubb isn't doing this & neither did Henry Childs..
A VLD BC is always higher than a same weight SMK(unless tipped).
Of course there are always prices to pay for one edge or another.
I don't see how they could easily be compared. Tubb had Sierra make the 115s for him & I don't know that you can actually buy them un-DTACinated, from Sierra
I shoot the 115 DTAC in a 243 SLR. The bullets are both moly and Hbn coated. Can't tell any difference on target or across the chrono between the two coatings.
The performance is comparable to a 6.5x284 (have one of those also). Am shooting the pointed DTAC at 3050 fps with excellent accuracy.
Tried the Bergers and got tired of using up precious bbl life trying to get them to shoot. DTACs are very forgiving on seating depth and they just want to shoot.
Bob
The performance is comparable to a 6.5x284 (have one of those also). Am shooting the pointed DTAC at 3050 fps with excellent accuracy.
Tried the Bergers and got tired of using up precious bbl life trying to get them to shoot. DTACs are very forgiving on seating depth and they just want to shoot.
Bob
If you are shooting the 115 DTAC's close to 3100 fps then your initial starting G1 BC # will be approaching .600.
Many fail to recognize data from a 1000 or 1200 yard tests using the oehler 43 system will give better information than if shot at closer distances.
Current production DTAC 115's will have a better BC # than current production berger 115 vld's
Many fail to recognize data from a 1000 or 1200 yard tests using the oehler 43 system will give better information than if shot at closer distances.
Current production DTAC 115's will have a better BC # than current production berger 115 vld's
David, I use your 115's and have found them very easy to tune and they shoot better than anything i have tried. I trim and repoint and check on the BSC. and in five hundred, the max deviation was.004 and the last 2000 was .007. Not too bad and they produce very small groups at 100 yds. and 2 - 5" at 1K.
I just revisited the Berger 115"s for a test and in 20 bullets the bearing surface varied .030, and they don't point as good as DTAC. the Dasher seems to like your bullets and that is in 3 different barrels........jim
I just revisited the Berger 115"s for a test and in 20 bullets the bearing surface varied .030, and they don't point as good as DTAC. the Dasher seems to like your bullets and that is in 3 different barrels........jim
I did a head to head test in windy conditions Sunday.
I zeroed at 712 yds and fired a group with DTAC's
and 115 Bergers with my DASHER.
To be unbiased I shot one Berger then one DTAC,
then one DTAC then one Berger alternating untill
a five shot group was shot with each bullet.
This way the wind was the same for each bullet and
the heat of the barrel was the same for each group.
I had not worked up a load for the DTAC. I just set
a bullet in at the lands and went with it. Also the
7 twist barrel should favor the Berger as a 8 twist will
work for the DTAC.
Wind was bad but that is what I needed to know. Which
one drifted more in the wind. I believe I found out.
The tenth shot droped on the DTAC or it would have been
a really good group (barrel was heating up).
Judge for yourself
I zeroed at 712 yds and fired a group with DTAC's
and 115 Bergers with my DASHER.
To be unbiased I shot one Berger then one DTAC,
then one DTAC then one Berger alternating untill
a five shot group was shot with each bullet.
This way the wind was the same for each bullet and
the heat of the barrel was the same for each group.
I had not worked up a load for the DTAC. I just set
a bullet in at the lands and went with it. Also the
7 twist barrel should favor the Berger as a 8 twist will
work for the DTAC.
Wind was bad but that is what I needed to know. Which
one drifted more in the wind. I believe I found out.
The tenth shot droped on the DTAC or it would have been
a really good group (barrel was heating up).
Judge for yourself
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