1000 yard IBS agg Match

[NC308]

Josh..... I have shot bullseye pistol competition, short range BR, and 4 types of rimfire competition. In all you could look at where your bullets are hitting, and make sight corrections if needed. At my first 1000 yard IBS I was told by anther shooter that I was shooting too many sighters and over heating my barrel too much before the record target comes up. Makes a lot of sense.
Due to a bad neck, I can not shoot F-class. Doug

I understand what your saying. But i'm not going to throw a group away to win a score. So even If I could see that I'm hitting to the left on a record target i'm not moving once I start!

 

[johara1]

You miss the point, if you shoot in the same condition you have a good chance for both. You shoot a 100 with 5 and a 4" group, the odds are better to win with one of them. …. jim

 

[NC308]

Boy did we hijack the crap out of this trend!! Sorry David, carry on!

 

[DaveTooley]

i always worked for score since I have no control over the group size unless I learned something in the sight in period and willing to hold for a condition change. There is a process that many of the top shooters use to get zeroed. Just ask at the next match. I have my own. Also watch what they do through a spotting scope during the last minute of the sight in period. It is a learning process every time you come to the line. Make the most of the 6 minutes.

.

 

[DaveTooley]

A lot of guys don't worry about score. I know a lot that just shoot for group. That came from the mentality of group beats score. Can't win both. Matt

But either pay the same so why reduce your odds 50%?

 

[Joe Salt]

Come on guys I thought I had a good Idea! Shout off for relay wins group and score and shoot off for top 12 group and score.

Jim I've had some good scores with one or two that gave me a big group. The smaller your group is, you better have them centered.

Joe Salt

 

[Raythemanroe]

I haven't read the entire thread, I would suggest combine LG to the same day as HG.. Williamsport usually has more LG shooters Saturday then HG shooters Sun (At least before the bridge got taken out).. I would romance the idea of the belly floppers on Sunday.. Maybe belly floppers would watch some Benchrest than get the itch and vice versa..


Ray

 

[Cool Tool]

From what understand the long range committee is going to look at all these comments long an hard an try to come up with a solution to the current rules in place

 

[David 0306]

George you are correct The LRC has a lot of info in front of them and in a nut shell it looks like we have several new and expericed level shooters that like the agg format because they get more trigger time. Then there's several that say agg alone is unfair due to not shooting in same conditions. And then there's a few more that saw don't change anything . As far as paying and prizes at matches that completely falls under each clubs discretion and the ones that have suggested some of these changes I urged you to go take these thing up with your club. We really are looking at a lot of things and hope to be able to put some options out soon maybe as early as nationals in Ga may be able to run one or a couple computer simulated matches as well who know winners of computer trail run may win our famous DQ card .
I urge you all to continue to talk but do ask you to remember the agg that is in place this year was only a experiment to see what shooters thought about different things and we are getting lots of feedback . So please keep a open mind and countiue to support or study of this process .
Thank To All
David

 

[Cool Tool]

Good job David 0306 keep up the good work you guys do for our sport.

 

[johara1]

David, i would think one think never mentioned is the Agg. format will no doubt increase the time of the match and it will also increase the cost all due to the extra relays. The other thing is it will be hard to continue to hold double matches on a week end unless the numbers continue to fall……. jim

 

[DaveTooley]

David, i would think one think never mentioned is the Agg. format will no doubt increase the time of the match and it will also increase the cost all due to the extra relays. The other thing is it will be hard to continue to hold double matches on a week end unless the numbers continue to fall……. jim

With a little creative thinking most ranges could manage the time required to shoot a relay agg. The only additional cost would be targets and some labor for the target crew. All easily covered with a modest increase in fees. It might be a long day but aren't we there to shoot?

This is just an off the wall question but should be part of the discussion because of the time requirements.
Is the 10 match aggregate still a viable course of fire?

 

[johara1]

Dave, think about it this way if you have 40 shooters and have 4 relays, and one shoot off relay = 5 relays, in the agg. it would be 8 relays. Times 4, 2 light and 2 heavy = 32 verses 5 x 4 = 20 relays that is 12 extra relays for the day. Time and cost go up a lot……… 50 % to be a close guess. …… jim

 

[DaveTooley]

Dave, think about it this way if you have 40 shooters and have 4 relays, and one shoot off relay = 5 relays, in the agg. it would be 8 relays. Times 4, 2 light and 2 heavy = 32 verses 5 x 4 = 20 relays that is 12 extra relays for the day. Time and cost go up a lot……… 50 % to be a close guess. …… jim

Not sure how you get to 32 relays. 4 relays per class X 2 targets = 8 relays per class. That's 16 relays for both classes. Then add the shoot offs in. Shoot offs could be a single target or a two target agg. At most that comes up to 20 relays when shooting both score and group in the same relay. I guess some look at a glass and see it's half empty and some see it as half full.
I would happily pay 50% more to shoot twice as much. Insignificant all things considered.

 

[Jason Boersma]

It's the same number of relays, it's just that you will shoot more targets per relay. Each relay goes to the line, shoots 2 targets for light gun then sets up for heavy gun and shoots 2 targets, then the next relay sets up. Then that's the match. Easy!

 

[ridgeway]

The light bulb went off when you asked this. My opinion is, and I'm most likely in the minority and that's cool. I think it is the MOST viable myself, and believe that's what the boys at Williamsport got right all those years ago. I don't think it's a viable way to compare from one range to the next. But absolutely, there is no better way to compare a single clubs own results. I would actually love to see incentives for grinding out aggs. 10 different days to keep them in tune. 10 different days to hopefully get lucky with conditions. I can think of no better way!

Tom

That makes sense...agg the final finish in the matches and run shoot offs for each match. Keeping a shoot off is the absolute best way to keep a level playing field during changing conditions. Can't control the conditions, but you can keep it fair with shootoff.

 

[DaveTooley]

It's the same number of relays, it's just that you will shoot more targets per relay. Each relay goes to the line, shoots 2 targets for light gun then sets up for heavy gun and shoots 2 targets, then the next relay sets up. Then that's the match. Easy!

This is basically how the nbrsa runs their matches. It's great for the amount of time necessary, but all but guarantees the draw determining the winners. Can someone please build us an indoor 1k venue?

It's funny, and I do realize I'm the minority, but I would rather shoot/load less rather than more. Quality over quantity if you will.


Tom

you forget there would be a shoot off with the relay winners.

 

[ridgeway]

Most run double matches right? Think about this...keep the shootoffs and to determine a grand winner...agg the results for both shootoffs. So if you are in a shootoff for group...you better make sure you are centered up so you can be in the running for the grand agg winner?

 

[savagedasher]

My thought is that realys should be used to qualify And the championship should be determined with the shoot off
Just like the Olympic . Larry

 

[Jason Boersma]

Shouldn't need a shoot-off, the shooter with the smallest group agg should be match winner for group and the shooter with the highest score agg should be the match winner for score. Maybe I'm wrong.