1/4 moa vs .1mil adj on scope
- Thread starter mattt
- Start date
MOA adjustments are commonly broken down into 1/4 MOA (or 1/8 MOA, but examples given are based upon 1/4 MOA). MIL adjustments are broken down into tenths: 1/10, 2/10, 3/10, etc. Adjusting 1 MOA would be 4 clicks, 2 MOA would be 8 clicks with 1/4 MOA adjustments. Adjusting 1 MIL is going to be 10 clicks, adjusting 2 will be 20 clicks with 1/10 MIL adjustments. IMO, the math is simpler in the MIL system (10 clicks = 1 MIL) compared to the MOA system (4 clicks = 1 MOA) giving you benefits in mulitple areas.
The MIL reticles and adjustments sync up better too, IMO. You can break the MIL reticle up into tens and match the 1/10 adjustments so your fractions are the same. There is no MOA reticle that gives you an equal subtension with the 0.25 MOA adjustments. Trying to locate the extra 0.05 of an MOA on your reticle is a real challenge. The eye will have a harder time breaking the reticle down into 0.25 of an MOA compared to breaking 1 MIL into tenths. Not impossible, just more difficult.
The MIL reticles and adjustments sync up better too, IMO. You can break the MIL reticle up into tens and match the 1/10 adjustments so your fractions are the same. There is no MOA reticle that gives you an equal subtension with the 0.25 MOA adjustments. Trying to locate the extra 0.05 of an MOA on your reticle is a real challenge. The eye will have a harder time breaking the reticle down into 0.25 of an MOA compared to breaking 1 MIL into tenths. Not impossible, just more difficult.
1 Mil is 3.6 inches at 100 yards and 36 inches at 1000 yards, so the scope that Millet sells with .1 Mil adjustments would be around .36 inch per click at 100 yards compared t. the 1/4 MOA being around 1/4 inch per click at 100 yards.
As Mike said, the mil math is easier and you can range with the Mil system as long as you know target size.
Frank
As Mike said, the mil math is easier and you can range with the Mil system as long as you know target size.
Frank
Remember no matter which system that you choose, you will only be able to range distances reliably at the specific power that the scope manufacturer has chosen for your ranging, if you are using a SFP scope.
If you chose a FFP scope, then you can range at any power, provided that you know the size of the object that you are ranging.
As far as ranging unknown distances either MOA or Mils will work equally as well, just for me it is easier to range with a MIL scope system for the reasons already stated earlier. Best of of luck with your choice!
If you chose a FFP scope, then you can range at any power, provided that you know the size of the object that you are ranging.
As far as ranging unknown distances either MOA or Mils will work equally as well, just for me it is easier to range with a MIL scope system for the reasons already stated earlier. Best of of luck with your choice!
Thanks mike. The scopes I have now are bushnell 4200 tact 6x24 with only 48 moa. I was shooting a 8,9,1k match last month and my 308 cz with scope topped out at 900. It has a mil dot ret but my chart was in moa. Well after wasting a few shots I used 3 mil dots for 9 moa to get to 1000 not perfect but it worked .I am new to long range shooting but am hooked. I am going to try the millet on my 300 5r rem and maybe put one one of my f/tr rifles. I know the millet is not as good as my bushnells but with over 100 MOA i want to try it.
Matt, You'd be much better served to wait and save your hard earned money and spend it on a better quality scope. We've got a couple of guys on our hunting lease who were always looking for latest and greatest bargain optics and both purchased different Millet upper end scopes, both scopes turned out to be junk. Both sent them back and were given new scope that turned out to be no better then the first one. The clicks were not repeatable and to say the sight picture was less then desireable out past 200yds would be kind. In this case the old saying "Only a rich man can afford to by a cheap scope", comes to mind.
RJ
RJ
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
What this really comes down to is that the .1 mil adjustments are coarser than the .25 MOA. Since we have so many affordable laser rangefinders, it hardly seems worth the trouble to bother ranging with a mil dot reticle, which requires an accurate estimate of the target size, and some figuring to use.
I have a friend who hunts at extended yardages, and he uses ballistic software to produce charts for his rifles , according to their loads and the ambient conditions where he will be hunting, that he tapes to the buttstocks of his rifles. In the field, he ranges the distance, refers to the chart, puts in the needed clicks, and has excellent results. This seems the logical way to go. That there are ten clicks to a mil or four clicks to a MOA is irrelevant, and I can hardly thing of an argument that favors coarser adjustments.
If you are going to use a mil dot reticle as it was intended, on a variable power scope, you are either going to stick to one power (or in some cases two) at which the reticle will be correctly dimensioned, for a second focal plane design (common on most American scopes) or if you want the reticle to be correct at all magnifications, choose scope that has a first focal plane reticle, in which case the reticle will enlarge as the magnification increases, to the extent that a small target may be covered. The Millet web site does not say which approach they are using. You will have to make a call in order to find this out.
Now, let me ask you a question. Do you know how a mil dot system was designed to be used, and what the mil refers to?
I have a friend who hunts at extended yardages, and he uses ballistic software to produce charts for his rifles , according to their loads and the ambient conditions where he will be hunting, that he tapes to the buttstocks of his rifles. In the field, he ranges the distance, refers to the chart, puts in the needed clicks, and has excellent results. This seems the logical way to go. That there are ten clicks to a mil or four clicks to a MOA is irrelevant, and I can hardly thing of an argument that favors coarser adjustments.
If you are going to use a mil dot reticle as it was intended, on a variable power scope, you are either going to stick to one power (or in some cases two) at which the reticle will be correctly dimensioned, for a second focal plane design (common on most American scopes) or if you want the reticle to be correct at all magnifications, choose scope that has a first focal plane reticle, in which case the reticle will enlarge as the magnification increases, to the extent that a small target may be covered. The Millet web site does not say which approach they are using. You will have to make a call in order to find this out.
Now, let me ask you a question. Do you know how a mil dot system was designed to be used, and what the mil refers to?
40X Guy said:
while your math is correct, you failed to understand or explain that 1 mil is nothing more or less than 1 mil, mils have no value, unless you give them one, this is a common problem people who don't understand mils
1 mil is 1/1000 of any unit measurement on the planet!
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
In the case of a mil dot scope of fixed power, or a second focal plane reticle variable set to the magnification that yields the correct reticle magnification for proper dot spacing, the center to center distance of the dots is one thousandth of the distance from the shooter to the target, in what ever units the size of the target is measured in. For instance if an object that is seen in the scope is known to be 2 yards tall, and it's height fits exactly in the center to center space between two adjacent dots, the target is 2,000 yards distant. If it is two center to center spaces high, (viewed through the scope), it is 1,000 yard away, and if four, 500. In any case, your range estimate will not be more accurate than your estimate of the size of what you are ranging off of. (GIGO)
The reticle does not enlarge as power increases in an FFP scope, as it remains the same size vs the size of the target, as both increase at the same rate during magnification. It does look bigger than a SFP scope, because the reticle in a SFP scope never increases in size vs the target size, as magnification increases, is a more accurate assessment of the condition.
If this scope is going to be used on a weapon where fast target engagements at varying distances are the norm get a Mil bases reticle with matching .1MRAD knobs, FFP is not required, but makes shooting moving targets easier, why because no matter what power the scope is at the reticle subtensions are the same, so a 1.5 mil lead on a mover is the same at 5 power or 25 power, FFP also makes wind holds and elevation holds easier for the same reasons.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
Mike,
What can I say, you're right. I guess that I should have said is that that I would not choose a first focal plane scope for shooting at small targets far away, because I find it advantageous that a second focal plane reticle reduces in size and magnification is increased.
Boyd
What can I say, you're right. I guess that I should have said is that that I would not choose a first focal plane scope for shooting at small targets far away, because I find it advantageous that a second focal plane reticle reduces in size and magnification is increased.
Boyd
Totally agree Boyd. Both have their places, but one needs to understand how they differ to make a valid decision as to which is best for them.
brian427cobra said:
Hello 427, what you failed to understand is what I understand. Until you know me or can talk to me to my face, we will leave it at that. I was responding to original poster hoping to help him out. If you want to understand or help me understand, please PM me here and we can work it out. We are all here to help everyone shoot better, not tell people that they fail to understand.
Frank
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