Do you want the score you actually shot…or the score the E-target says you shot?

[Ahhnother8]

You probably can’t have both.

E-targets should NOT be used for any type of serious competition and NEVER for National Records. They are fabulous for practice and close enough for long-range testing, but that is about it.

I have two Shotmarkers set up on the target frame as pictured and calibrated to one another as much as is possible. Shot a couple of strings today in MILD conditions and here are the results. The group size is 2.75-3” different between the two Shotmarkers. Surprisingly, for one string the #1 Shotmarker posted the smaller group and for the other string the #2 Shotmarker posted the smaller group. Look at the stats in the blue box too. Wildly different (SD, ES) on one, but not the other. The score was slightly different on one string, but not on the other. That is simply dumb luck. One other string I fired, there was a point difference between the two Shotmarker scores. Traveling any significant distance for a rifle match, for a roll-of-the-dice from the computer, is just not worth it.

 

[quest450]

I KNEW IT !!!! hate playing video games and Etargets shouldn't be used in 600 and 1K benchrest competition IMHO of course

 

[Syncrowave]

 

[323]

You probably can’t have both.

E-targets should NOT be used for any type of serious competition and NEVER for National Records. They are fabulous for practice and close enough for long-range testing, but that is about it.

I have two Shotmarkers set up on the target frame as pictured and calibrated to one another as much as is possible. Shot a couple of strings today in MILD conditions and here are the results. The group size is 2.75-3” different between the two Shotmarkers. Surprisingly, for one string the #1 Shotmarker posted the smaller group and for the other string the #2 Shotmarker posted the smaller group. Look at the stats in the blue box too. Wildly different (SD, ES) on one, but not the other. The score was slightly different on one string, but not on the other. That is simply dumb luck. One other string I fired, there was a point difference between the two Shotmarker scores. Traveling any significant distance for a rifle match, for a roll-of-the-dice from the computer, is just not worth it.



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Where is the picture of the actual target be curious to see how far off shotmarker was from the actual target. Just gave you target picture a good look I wonder what Adam would say about your Shotmarker setup two sets of microphones on your target?? People complain about shotmarker and it not being accurate first they need to start with a clean repair center shoot the string be it 5-10 shots go remove and repeat. Far as running two shotmarkers on one frame I would remove one, set it up on another target and do your test.

 

[CBTobias]

You probably can’t have both.

E-targets should NOT be used for any type of serious competition and NEVER for National Records. They are fabulous for practice and close enough for long-range testing, but that is about it.

I have two Shotmarkers set up on the target frame as pictured and calibrated to one another as much as is possible. Shot a couple of strings today in MILD conditions and here are the results. The group size is 2.75-3” different between the two Shotmarkers. Surprisingly, for one string the #1 Shotmarker posted the smaller group and for the other string the #2 Shotmarker posted the smaller group. Look at the stats in the blue box too. Wildly different (SD, ES) on one, but not the other. The score was slightly different on one string, but not on the other. That is simply dumb luck. One other string I fired, there was a point difference between the two Shotmarker scores. Traveling any significant distance for a rifle match, for a roll-of-the-dice from the computer, is just not worth it.



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Yeah, because nothing questionable ever happens in the pits.

Also, where are the pictures of the groups on target?

 

[323]

I don’t know if this is an early April fools joke or the op is being serious??

 

[rardoin]

I have not seen, on my testing targets with a new face, the discrepancies that you have reported here. I have a very rigid setup that does not move with reasonable wind. Yes, I have seen some error when shooting in windy conditions on less rigid setups. I also agree that human pullers can make errors that are not known/challenged by the shooter.

 

[323]

I have not seen, on my testing targets with a new face, the discrepancies that you have reported here. I have a very rigid setup that does not move with reasonable wind. Yes, I have seen some error when shooting in windy conditions on less rigid setups. I also agree that human pullers can make errors that are not known/challenged by the shooter.

Or the ah it’s close enough routine… I will only pull targets once a year. That’s at swn that’s it, I have no desire to pull targets anymore it makes for an extremely long day. Probably why I won’t go to f class nationals this year this guy has no desire to pull targets.

 

[delucy]

Every year that I shoot at Ben Avery in Phoenix I hear of someone who had a 'miss' in the middle of several Xs. While its certainly possible to have a miss in those circumstances, the most likely scenario is that the puller failed to see the shot right under the marker. I would rather lose an X (as in the example above), due to an E-target error, than lose 10 points due to a pulling error.

Dale

 

[std7mag]

Whichever one gives me the better score...

 

[JFrank]

I would have put a white paper target over that black one and shoot a group and compare real center to center measurements against the E target reported group size.
And likely more than just one time..

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Shotmarkers are great. The reasonable cost allows clubs to have electronics.

There are better systems out there - Kronenberg, Sius , used at the Paris Olympics and the Australian Hexta.

All you need to do, is cough up the extra cash.

 

[1kbrxDave]

Just a simple question to understand.
Did you first calibrate both shot markers on this test on this target

 

[lb-ft]

Any chance having two sets of shotmarkers on one target is causing interference with each other?

 

[gravelyctry]

I’m curious how the second set of sensors affect the acoustic waves measured by the other set.

It would seem a single set of sensors would be the most accurate way to go. Maybe repeat the test having two frames with two systems, one in front of the other. Like a smallbore backer.

 

[Chaotik]

Shotmarkers are great. The reasonable cost allows clubs to have electronics.

There are better systems out there - Kronenberg, Sius , used at the Paris Olympics and the Australian Hexta.

All you need to do, is cough up the extra cash.

Konigsberg targets have been a disaster at our local public range in South Florida, and are being replaced by Shot Markers, which have there own set of problems. I stopped shooting F class in 2017 because of what I felt was the random and unpredictable (and often egregious) errors of electronic targets.

But I will use electronic targets for load workup.

 

[rardoin]

Hexta are great...if maintained properly. One particular range did not change the membranes as suggested and had a host of problems which led to a loss of shooters willing to compete at that facility. Expensive and great dedicated scoring devices, but heavy and expensive to own.

 

[Monte F]

Every year that I shoot at Ben Avery in Phoenix I hear of someone who had a 'miss' in the middle of several Xs. While its certainly possible to have a miss in those circumstances, the most likely scenario is that the puller failed to see the shot right under the marker. I would rather lose an X (as in the example above), due to an E-target error, than lose 10 points due to a pulling error.

Dale

Witnessed this first hand with the shooter to my left. The target went down and came up with a miss, so the puller (paid) had seen the bullet impact but pasted the shot and did not realize the next came in almost the same hole. When we go to the pits and inspected the target we found the enlarged hole under the paster and a spotter with a hole right at the spindle. The shooter was not pleased as he was shooting mostly X's and would have been in the running for the win that day. He called for a challenge, but did not win. Something a e-target may not have missed, although I have seen them miss shots under the right conditions. I spoke with Adam at this years SWN about this and he offered some suggestions which we will try at our range.

 

[Walt Krafft]

The assumption that pulled targets are perfect is flawed.

 

[323]

Witnessed this first hand with the shooter to my left. The target went down and came up with a miss, so the puller (paid) had seen the bullet impact but pasted the shot and did not realize the next came in almost the same hole. When we go to the pits and inspected the target we found the enlarged hole under the paster and a spotter with a hole right at the spindle. The shooter was not pleased as he was shooting mostly X's and would have been in the running for the win that day. He called for a challenge, but did not win. Something a e-target may not have missed, although I have seen them miss shots under the right conditions. I spoke with Adam at this years SWN about this and he offered some suggestions which we will try at our range.

With E targets if the shooters is shooting 9s-10s and X’s and they have a dropped shot they will get a provisional.