A Eureka moment with my Trijicon RMR

[Tesoro]

Big fan of Trijis and started using them on brush guns, and on some handguns for shooting steel at distance because my eyes are now at the fuzzy front sight stage of life.

What I just realized, and what is rarely mentioned, is that the Triji has magnification properties of around 1.5x. Triji states there is no magnification. Maybe with the std size ones there is not, but with the mini there is. I will have to check on my std size ones.

I recently bought a new 1911 9mm which has co-witness sights infront of the optic, and if i turn it off I found out I can see the sights like I had 18 year old eyes again. Crazy! I had only test fired a dozen mags previously, ignoring the irons and just focusing on the target rather than the dot like you are supposed to do.

An interesting effect I also noticed yesterday is that when I was sweeping to shoot at multiple 25 yd targets on a dirt berm using the irons, it appeared like I was shooting thru a moving 'bubble', where I noticed the areas outside my line of sight were smaller and thus creating this bubble effect. I am not sure if I was seeing this effect outside of the glass, or on the edge of the glass, as it has some curvature. Will have to check this next time. it was noticeable when I was sweeping.

Anyhow, the above might be old news to some but I am happy to be able to use irons again with ' assistance'. Maybe this can help someone. I am 90% rifle guy and I don't want to allocate the time and expense to learn how to shoot defensive pistol all over again using a dot.

 

[ronsatspokane]

You can do the same thing with a $15 pair of cheaters that bring the front sight into crisp focus. That said, I run red dots of various brands and types on all my pistols these days. Basic ones on target guns, more sophisticated ones with shake alive on tactical guns and sealed ones w/shake alive on anything I pack in the woods like my bear gun.

 

[Tesoro]

You can do the same thing with a $15 pair of cheaters that bring the front sight into crisp focus. That said, I run red dots of various brands and types on all my pistols these days. Basic ones on target guns, more sophisticated ones with shake alive on tactical guns and sealed ones w/shake alive on anything I pack in the woods like my bear gun.

You mean wearing the cheaters? if so then the target is blurred. Plus I might not have time to put them on when a bandito runs out into the middle of my path.

I was thinking about a custom manufactured shrouded 'n armored light magnifying lens that would mount using a rmr base! Ideally swaro glass. lol

 

[linebaugh]

I like the way you think. I just bought an SRO yesterday. My 2nd red dot and like you its because of vision but I was immediately won over after my first dot. Its a damn sight more accurate than irons. On a customized Ruger Mk2 I can demolish a chew can off of a sand bag at 50yrds.

Id like to hear about the pistol that sight sits on if you dont mind. Im a CZ guy entertaining another purchase and am slightly open to the dbl stack 1911/2011 type guns.

 

[ronsatspokane]

You mean wearing the cheaters? if so then the target is blurred. Plus I might not have time to put them on when a bandito runs out into the middle of my path.

I was thinking about a custom manufactured shrouded 'n armored light magnifying lens that would mount using a rmr base! Ideally swaro glass. lol

When you focus on the front sight the target will blur regardless of ones quality of vision. No one has the depth of field required to bring both the target and the front sight into sharp focus. Unless of course the target is so close that you need to clean the powder burns off of it when done shooting.

 

[GetReal]

The point of a red dot is that there really is nothing to learn to use a red dot well.

Put the dot where you want the bullet to go.And pull the trigger. I'm not trying to be snarkly or argumentative .... that is the actual manual of arms for using a red dot.

There's nothing to align like a front sight & rear sight , and the dot doesn't have to even be in the perfect middle of the window.

 

[Tesoro]

When you focus on the front sight the target will blur regardless of ones quality of vision. No one has the depth of field required to bring both the target and the front sight into sharp focus. Unless of course the target is so close that you need to clean the powder burns off of it when done shooting.

Yes but i am not walking around with 1.5x cheaters when cc!!

 

[Tesoro]

The point of a red dot is that there really is nothing to learn to use a red dot well.

Put the dot where you want the bullet to go.And pull the trigger. I'm not trying to be snarkly or argumentative .... that is the actual manual of arms for using a red dot.

There's nothing to align like a front sight & rear sight , and the dot doesn't have to even be in the perfect middle of the window.

I have 50 yrs of iron sight handgun shooting. Red dots are not something u automatically adopt without 1000’s of rounds n countless hrs to re-training. I am talking about draw n shoot in seconds to align sight n shoot target. I dont want to allocate time n bucks to learn how to shoot all over again!

 

[Tesoro]

I got back fm range today n had time to compare Trijis.
The little one definitely magnifies. The bigger std one actually de-magnifies a hair, but not as drastic as the magnification of the little one. The outward lens curvature looks about the same to naked eye. There ya go. The std one on left is actually larger than looks in this pic

 

[ronsatspokane]

Yes but i am not walking around with 1.5x cheaters when cc!!

Neither am I. That's why I have red dots.

However, I do have a pair of shooting glasses with bifocals in the bottom in case I need to do detail close work while at the range.

 

[GetReal]

I have 50 yrs of iron sight handgun shooting. Red dots are not something u automatically adopt without 1000’s of rounds n countless hrs to re-training. I am talking about draw n shoot in seconds to align sight n shoot target. I dont want to allocate time n bucks to learn how to shoot all over again!

Wow. I picked up the red dot in less than 500 rounds. Self taught. I'm talking about consistent A zone hits in 1.5 seconds. The essential concept is you look where you want the bullet to go and bring the gun up into your line of sight.Place the red dot over the target and pull the trigger. THERE IS NO ALIGNING SIGHT(S). None.

Its not a difficult concept. I've taught it to novice shooters in a couple hours. I think you're selling yourself short and you could very easily pick up a red dot. With fifty years of handgun experience , you can do this.

 

[Tesoro]

Wow. I picked up the red dot in less than 500 rounds. Self taught. I'm talking about consistent A zone hits in 1.5 seconds. The essential concept is you look where you want the bullet to go and bring the gun up into your line of sight.Place the red dot over the target and pull the trigger. THERE IS NO ALIGNING SIGHT(S). None.

Its not a difficult concept. I've taught it to novice shooters in a couple hours. I think you're selling yourself short and you could very easily pick up a red dot. With fifty years of handgun experience , you can do this.

Ok!! Thanks. I'll change my attitude and give it an honest try driving without having to push a clutch pedal.

 

[nakneker]

I’m in the same boat Tesoro, the vast majority of my shooting is long guns. I have a few pistols that I’ve been using more and more though, I certainly have diminished abilities optically due to my 58 years. I use red dots on several of my levers and ARs, pretty easy to use imo on long guns. The few times I’ve tried it on pistols felt backwards and I just resort back to using irons, my stigmatism doesn’t help. Holosuns don’t blur as bad for me for whatever reason as far as the stigmatism goes.

I’m sure I could adjust to red dots. I having eye surgery this years and plan on revisiting red dots and pistols after the surgery.

It’s hard to teach an old dog new tricks even if the new tricks are worth a try.

Interesting observation I should add.

 

[Tesoro]

I’m in the same boat Tesoro, the vast majority of my shooting is long guns. I have a few pistols that I’ve been using more and more though, I certainly have diminished abilities optically due to my 58 years. I use red dots on several of my levers and ARs, pretty easy to use imo on long guns. The few times I’ve tried it on pistols felt backwards and I just resort back to using irons, my stigmatism doesn’t help. Holosuns don’t blur as bad for me for whatever reason as far as the stigmatism goes.

I’m sure I could adjust to red dots. I having eye surgery this years and plan on revisiting red dots and pistols after the surgery.

It’s hard to teach an old dog new tricks even if the new tricks are worth a try.

Interesting observation I should add.

oh yes I have an astigmatism I guess but not all the time so not sure if i have one, or it is from occasional tearing from old eye injury, because sometimes I see a dot and sometimes a meteor. If it is a meteor I know where the head is!
I have noticed on safari videos that many PH's use rmr's on their doubles. I am not a fan of Holosons. I had one and was cleaning pistols and got some degunk spray on my hands then onto the holo lens and it ate off the coating instantly. The same didnt phase the Trijicons. I also had an aimpoint 2moa 'duty' (expensive) on a rifle and it was bulletproof and fully waterproof. Like a mini sealed scope. I am a cross shooter and with the aimpoint I could keep both eyes open and just see the dot floating out in the field which was pretty wild. Cant do that with the Triji rmr I have on my 45-70 wild west lever. Might switch back to a duty. I am not sure how well the rmr would work in rain.

 

[GetReal]

How to "red dot":

1. Get a hard, even intense focus on where you want the bullet to hit.

2. Draw / raise the gun up into your line of sight, while maintaining focus on target.

3. Dont try to follow the dot / sight. This will likely cause you to lose the dot in the sight window.

4. Place the gun / red dot between your eye and the target, with the dot where you want the bullet hole.

5. Practice standard trigger squeeze AND follow thru.

6. If shooting multiple targets ( i.e. steel challenge) move your head / eyes to the next target, get your intense focus, the move then gun. Repeat #4 and #5.

Of course, every skill set improves with practice, and this all can be "dry fired." But a pistol frame / grip angle that is designed for your body / wrist geonetry will take care of 90% of your " aiming."

 

[jrb06]

3. Don't try to follow the dot / sight. This will likely cause you to lose the dot in the sight window.

This right here is spot on. The whole concept of pistol shooting with a dot at speed is much different than what is thought or been applied over time. Focus on the target and bring the gun into line of sight and when dot appears press the trigger, this is a very simple explanation and yes I know it is much more detailed than this. Many competitive shooters shoot what is known as an occluded Dot where you actually cover the front side of the window with electrical tape or special made cover. Try it once cover the front of the window and keeping both eyes open looking at the target bring the gun up to your line of sight and you can actually see the dot imposed on the target while looking at the target. This will train you to focus on target picture and not the dot which is the proper way to use a red dot on a pistol.

 

[Knotwild]

When I bought my first dot sight I had to practice how to present the gun so the dot was in the window. For me, if I present the pistol muzzle a little high, the dot comes into the window as I level it. If carrying one for self defense, learning to do this even under stress or movement = life. Our sheriff department was thinking about going to dots and I said don't do it unless you provide training in their use. It's also important to know that you need to keep the lenses clean. A raindrop on my dot window puts it out of action. I'll have to save up some money to try the newer enclosed dots.

 

[GetReal]

When I bought my first dot sight I had to practice how to present the gun so the dot was in the window. For me, if I present the pistol muzzle a little high, the dot comes into the window as I level it. If carrying one for self defense, learning to do this even under stress or movement = life. Our sheriff department was thinking about going to dots and I said don't do it unless you provide training in their use.

Dots are easier than irons, but DO ABSOLUTELY require training.