OT: Smallest cartridge for black bear

[AA Ron]

Just stumbled upon this thread and have found it somewhat entertaining. Here's some advice from a 49 year old kid from Indiana who's never even seen a bear in the wild. Take whichever coyote rifle you prefer with the coyote load you prefer and go kill some coyotes. Keep that 44 hog leg and maybe some bear spray on your side just in case you trip on a bear and the shit hits the fan. Also stay away from people who call you dude.
Have fun,
Aaron

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

There was a guy awhile back ( in Idaho iirc) that shot a Grizzly with a .22 and killed it. He got in big trouble of course but it did die.
@Idaho-Lefty might recall the incident better than I do, maybe he”ll chime in.

NOPE,. I must have missed, that One !
As a "Back-up" to my Bow during Archery season, I carried a G-19 loaded with Hornady 124 gr. XTP's,..
just in Case ! My dealing's with, several Black Bears, IS to, SEE them, First and stay,.. quiet / READY !
The young ones, have seemed mostly, to Be curious and or, afraid of, Humans and ran, when Yelled at.
Bow in One Hand, Glock in the other, stretched out, over my head must have made me Look, pretty Big and Mean, as so Far,... they've all, RAN away !
My son shot, a huge, 15 year Old, Cinnamon Blackie that, Had MANY Battle Scars ( .30-06 was GOOD on him ).
I would NOT want to Be close to THAT, Old Bear ( He'd probably, Charge, a man )
PS; I would NOT recommend,.. a .22 LR for any, Bear Huntin'.
The .243 win. with, a Thick Jacketed bullet to, Break the Shoulder or Skull, would Be,.. Minimal,.. IMO

 

[effendude]

Wow, did this interesting discussion go off track! Further explanation of my suggestion on the first page. I've hunted bears in the dark swamps of MN for more than 30 years, and in Idaho for nearly 20 years. Bears are incredible animals, easy to kill if unalarmed, incredibly dangerous if alarmed or wounded. They are also unpredictable at times. The OP asked for a suggestion for a cartridge to use in the unlikely event of an aggressive bear or wolf encounter while coyote hunting. Any firearm is better than nothing, but the firearm in your hand is likely the only one you'll have time to use. We aren't talking about a aimed shot at 25 yards, this scenario would be 25 feet or less. I have interacted with enough game wardens who tell me if the animal doesn't have powder burns, it wasn't self defense.

We do some coyote/wolf hunting in Idaho during the day when bear hunting both spring and fall. I carried an AR in 223 with 64 grain Nosler solid base bullets, for wolves and possible in the event a lion or bear decides to sneak in. I have transitioned to a 6ARC simply for the ability for heavier bullets. I am loading 100 grain Nosler solid base bullets now. In the worst case scenario the OP posted, how many rounds are you going to fire, probably from the hip, with a bolt rifle at close range? Or put down the varmint rifle to unholster your handgun or pick up a 12 ga?

 

[mic2377]

Good input! I don't think my 223 will shoot the 60 or 64 bullets due to it being a 12 twist. After most of these reads, I'm really thinking about just using my 243 with heavy loads.

Bullets like the 55 and 62 Gold Dot, 60 Partition, 64 Nosler, etc are fairly short bullets for their weight. They will typically stabilize in 1/12 twist barrels without issues if pushed fast enough.

With a short barrel and 1/14 twist, they may not.

As suggested, the 90 Accubond would be an excellent projectile in the 243.

 

[JFrank]

Wow, did this interesting discussion go off track! Further explanation of my suggestion on the first page. I've hunted bears in the dark swamps of MN for more than 30 years, and in Idaho for nearly 20 years. Bears are incredible animals, easy to kill if unalarmed, incredibly dangerous if alarmed or wounded. They are also unpredictable at times. The OP asked for a suggestion for a cartridge to use in the unlikely event of an aggressive bear or wolf encounter while coyote hunting. Any firearm is better than nothing, but the firearm in your hand is likely the only one you'll have time to use. We aren't talking about a aimed shot at 25 yards, this scenario would be 25 feet or less. I have interacted with enough game wardens who tell me if the animal doesn't have powder burns, it wasn't self defense.

We do some coyote/wolf hunting in Idaho during the day when bear hunting both spring and fall. I carried an AR in 223 with 64 grain Nosler solid base bullets, for wolves and possible in the event a lion or bear decides to sneak in. I have transitioned to a 6ARC simply for the ability for heavier bullets. I am loading 100 grain Nosler solid base bullets now. In the worst case scenario the OP posted, how many rounds are you going to fire, probably from the hip, with a bolt rifle at close range? Or put down the varmint rifle to unholster your handgun or pick up a 12 ga?

Yes, I’ll apologize for my over enthusiast posts towards a topic near to me.

 

[effendude]

Yes, I’ll apologize for my over enthusiast posts towards a topic near to me.

My post wasn't directed at you, you provided great info. There were posts about using 12 ga with buckshot etc. Evidently people didn't read the original question. That's the ones I directed my comment towards. We hunt the Lolo over the pass West of you. Amazing country!

 

[std7mag]

Wow, did this interesting discussion go off track! Further explanation of my suggestion on the first page. I've hunted bears in the dark swamps of MN for more than 30 years, and in Idaho for nearly 20 years. Bears are incredible animals, easy to kill if unalarmed, incredibly dangerous if alarmed or wounded. They are also unpredictable at times. The OP asked for a suggestion for a cartridge to use in the unlikely event of an aggressive bear or wolf encounter while coyote hunting. Any firearm is better than nothing, but the firearm in your hand is likely the only one you'll have time to use. We aren't talking about a aimed shot at 25 yards, this scenario would be 25 feet or less. I have interacted with enough game wardens who tell me if the animal doesn't have powder burns, it wasn't self defense.

About the same thing here in PA.

With the many Game Commission officers I've talked with, when they get a bear defense call the reaction is typically.
1) Is the person dead or in the hospital?

2) Injuries on said person?

3) Signs of scuffle at the scene?

4) powder burns on the bear?

Essentially, if you aren't dead or wounded, it's not a self defense call. It becomes a "you killed a bear out of season" call.

 

[centerlineseal]

Shot gun with buck shot and slugs alternated is what we all carried for bears in S.E. Alaska when I cut timber there in the late 80's.
Dall Island the blackies were thick as fleas on a hound. You had to hang your bar oil jug up in a tree or the bears would eat it after we left for the day.

Mid 80's on Admiralty Island, ... deja vu all over. Always carried my bar oil after oil induced spray painted shit all around my work area!

 

[JFrank]

powder burns on the bear?

A bear can run 30 mph, that’s about 44 feet per second, in other words they can cover a hundred yards in under 7 seconds.
My granddaughter uses her bear scare then spray them with food coloring.. they hate that !!

 

[Mike in Oregon]

Wow, did this interesting discussion go off track! Further explanation of my suggestion on the first page. I've hunted bears in the dark swamps of MN for more than 30 years, and in Idaho for nearly 20 years. Bears are incredible animals, easy to kill if unalarmed, incredibly dangerous if alarmed or wounded. They are also unpredictable at times. The OP asked for a suggestion for a cartridge to use in the unlikely event of an aggressive bear or wolf encounter while coyote hunting. Any firearm is better than nothing, but the firearm in your hand is likely the only one you'll have time to use. We aren't talking about a aimed shot at 25 yards, this scenario would be 25 feet or less. I have interacted with enough game wardens who tell me if the animal doesn't have powder burns, it wasn't self defense.

We do some coyote/wolf hunting in Idaho during the day when bear hunting both spring and fall. I carried an AR in 223 with 64 grain Nosler solid base bullets, for wolves and possible in the event a lion or bear decides to sneak in. I have transitioned to a 6ARC simply for the ability for heavier bullets. I am loading 100 grain Nosler solid base bullets now. In the worst case scenario the OP posted, how many rounds are you going to fire, probably from the hip, with a bolt rifle at close range? Or put down the varmint rifle to unholster your handgun or pick up a 12 ga?

Thank you!

 

[Mike in Oregon]

A bear can run 30 mph, that’s about 44 feet per second, in other words they can cover a hundred yards in under 7 seconds.
My granddaughter uses her bear scare then spray them with food coloring.. they hate that !!

WOW, that really puts it in perspective.

 

[Mike in Oregon]

I have decided to use the 243 and will find a heavy factory ammo it likes. Eventually, I will be handloading for it. I think I was underestimating the 243 a bit too much. Although I wouldn't use it for a primary bear gun, I feel confident with it, the 44 mag and bear spray. Thanks guys.

 

[Mike in Oregon]

Thoughts?

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/243-win-90-gr-eld-x-precision-hunter#!/

 

[L.Sherm]

My post wasn't directed at you, you provided great info. There were posts about using 12 ga with buckshot etc. Evidently people didn't read the original question. That's the ones I directed my comment towards. We hunt the Lolo over the pass West of you. Amazing country!

Aaaah talking about me. I think there's some that use shotguns for coyotes to carry both rifle and shotgun just a little insight from a different perspective sorry if I pissed in your cheerios ill let the O.P chastise me if I was outta line.

 

[Mike in Oregon]

Aaaah talking about me. I think there's some that use shotguns for coyotes to carry both rifle and shotgun just a little insight from a different perspective sorry if I pissed in your cheerios ill let the O.P chastise me if I was outta line.

Consider yourself chastised Sherm.

 

[Jonnyofalltrades]

About the same thing here in PA.

With the many Game Commission officers I've talked with, when they get a bear defense call the reaction is typically.
1) Is the person dead or in the hospital?

2) Injuries on said person?

3) Signs of scuffle at the scene?

4) powder burns on the bear?

Essentially, if you aren't dead or wounded, it's not a self defense call. It becomes a "you killed a bear out of season" call.

This attitude blows my mind! As someone who grew up on bear meat, surrounded by black bears, they are a nuisance species only a few notches above beavers.

 

[Gary in MD]

Glad to see this thread come back to reality. LOL
For a while there, after some of the "advice", I thought you were going to be toting a 416 magnum for coyotes "just in case".
Good luck coyote hunting

 

[K22]

I've hunted black bear in the north central PA. However, I never got a shot at one. But my best friend and hunting partner, took 3 in PA. None of this makes us qualified to give expert advice on the OP's initial question.

However, just consider the wide range of advice given in this post. That in itself should be an indicator of the complexity of the question regarding the "smallest" caliber suitable for black beer. Distance, shot placement, size of the animal, bullet construction, etc. are just a few variables to consider.

One of the largest bears ever shot in PA was shot with a 30-30 Marlin, a 700 lbs. animal. That is a serious animal. My hunting partner uses a 308 with 180 grain factory ammo. He harvested all 3 PA bears he shot at.

The 243 Win is one of my favorite calibers, especially as a dual-purpose cartridge, i.e., deer and varmints/predator. However, personally, I never considered it for bear. Perhaps with partition bullet this type of cartridges would penetrate to vitals at moderate distances, I don't know.

But my question is, why would you want to select the bare minimum cartridge for such a magnificent animal especially a potentially dangerous animal? Remember, field shooting is not target shooting. You don't always have an ideal shot opportunity.

 

[3Ackleys]

With your barrel twist, the best bullets are the 95 Gr. Sierra TMK or the 90 Gr Nosler Balistic tip. They will work very well. I have used them, and seen them used many times on deer, bears, and elk. They will penetrate, leave a massive wound channel, and quickly kill. I would have no issues hunting with them. Most everyone I hunt with use .243" (243, 243 AI, 6 Creed, 6 Saum, 6-7 PRC) cartridges for elk, deer, and bears.
Those that say these bullets will bounce of the skull, or won't penetrate etc, all have one thing in common: ZERO first hand experience. So their advice is based on what they feel would happen, or what someone else told them what they think might happen.

 

[dellet]

With your barrel twist, the best bullets are the 95 Gr. Sierra TMK or the 90 Gr Nosler Balistic tip. They will work very well. I have used them, and seen them used many times on deer, bears, and elk. They will penetrate, leave a massive wound channel, and quickly kill. I would have no issues hunting with them. Most everyone I hunt with use .243" (243, 243 AI, 6 Creed, 6 Saum, 6-7 PRC) cartridges for elk, deer, and bears.
Those that say these bullets will bounce of the skull, or won't penetrate etc, all have one thing in common: ZERO first hand experience. So their advice is based on what they feel would happen, or what someone else told them what they think might happen.

Can you please point out the post where someone said bullets will bounce off a bear skull?
I can’t seem to find it.