FBI Handgun Cartridge Choices (Interview)

[David Milisock]

 

[effendude]

Very interesting!

 

[bluealtered]

Very well done. I have waited many years for this to come out with someone who was there from the start.
I own all the calibers talked about here and I love each and every one of those calibers for what it is.
Thanks.

 

[Tangent]

I always liked .40S&W always seemed like the sweet spot between 9mm and 45 ACP. High capacity and enough power, but not too much to affect accuracy.

 

[bluealtered]

Tangent, I would have to agree. While I try to love all my guns equally. But to be honest, the .40 gets just a bit more carried than some of the others.

 

[DirtySteve]

I started out with 45, and then moved to 40.. Years later pretty much have all 9mm's. I learned it is all about placement the rest don't matter. Of course you need the best bullet you can get to increase your effectiveness. Love the video..

 

[Steel Mover]

This data came out in the testing done at Eglin in the USAF 9mm tests in the early 80s. The truncated cone was designed at the R&D center at Eglin and allowed the 9mm to even pass the minimum accuracy levels to start the testing. The 115 gr round nose tea cup design is very inaccurate because of the reduced bearing surface, but if you look on a retail shelf it is in the majority of 9mm ammo boxes on the shelf. So if you go to the 124 gran truncated cone bullets or just above in bullet weight you get much more performance all the way around in accuracy, penetration and barrier straight line target impact.
It is not hard to figure out. My 9mm Major power factor IPSC gun used 160 gain 38 Super round nose bullets.

 

[GetReal]

Interesting vid.

I'll just mention that I always knew 147gr 9mm was best.

 

[J.d. Popkes]

Since I partially paid for this test I watched the video. All I shoot is 9mm. And when you go shoot a case in a weekend I can’t imagine doing that with 40 or 45 at double or triple the cost. And since you should train with what you’re going to shoot, and shot placement is key, well, win/win.

Now, someone needs to chime in and say:

45 is the lords caliber

Something about john moses browning

And winner of 2 world wars.

In all seriousness, I love 40/45, just so happens that 9 is affordable and good enough and easy to shoot.

 

[mongo chicago]

Sat in on some FBI dissertations on cartridge effectiveness decades ago. Pointed out some major flaws in their test criteria and results. Learned way back then the FBI is not the end all. Haven't had the patience to sit at my computer and watch this particular video yet. Intendd to do so when I am in a better mood.

 

[mongo chicago]

Finally got to see the video. Much better than the analysis I went to.

 

[True Grit]

There's very good ammo choices available for 9mm. I like two 147gr hollow points up first and then rotate a hard cast in for every other round.

 

[Infrequent Shooter]

Easy to get back on target, low(er) recoil, fairly high speed.

Keep in mind the FMJ penetrates like a hoss. A friend used sheetrock, FMJ, sheetrock stacked together. probably a 115 or 124 gr FMJ, penetrated more than 6 inches. I will ask him again, could have been almost a foot. I was shocked. before +P days.

of course most of the members on this site know full well the penetration ability of a 9mm FMJ!

 

[MClark]

Blanks. The way most cops shoot it’s the best option.

 

[David Milisock]

I always liked .40S&W always seemed like the sweet spot between 9mm and 45 ACP. High capacity and enough power, but not too much to affect accuracy.

Being a data nerd and having the opportunity to study autopsy reports from several police shootings in my county. I agree with the FBI technician there seems to not be much difference in terminal performance between the 40 S&W and 9MM x19.

I do think that the 9MM has less recoil and is easier to shoot than the 40. My 357 Sig with 125 grain at 1450 FPS is also easier to shoot than the 40 and 45 ACP+P.

 

[Tangent]

Being a data nerd and having the opportunity to study autopsy reports from several police shootings in my county. I agree with the FBI technician there seems to not be much difference in terminal performance between the 40 S&W and 9MM x19.

I do think that the 9MM has less recoil and is easier to shoot than the 40. My 357 Sig with 125 grain at 1450 FPS is also easier to shoot than the 40 and 45 ACP+P.

I like the look of 357 Sig, looks like it would feed reliably.

 

[David Milisock]

I like the look of 357 Sig, looks like it would feed reliably.

The 357 Sig shoots a 9MM projectile and in my Glock feds very well. The energy is significant while recoil is manageable, I have the full size Glock.

I have another bottle neck handgun cartridge the 7.62 x 25 which feeds well also.

 

[Tangent]

The 357 Sig shoots a 9MM projectile and in my Glock feds very well. The energy is significant while recoil is manageable, I have the full size Glock.

I have another bottle neck handgun cartridge the 7.62 x 25 which feeds well also.

Yes, I think if I was in the US I'd be looking at 357 Sig Glock myself. Does it shoot noticeably flatter?

I shot a Tokarev many years ago. It was close between what was more lethal, the bullets or the ejected cases!

 

[David Milisock]

Yes, I think if I was in the US I'd be looking at 357 Sig Glock myself. Does it shoot noticeably flatter?

I shot a Tokarev many years ago. It was close between what was more lethal, the bullets or the ejected cases!

One needs to take all my handgun evaluations from my handgun position and that is that a handgun is something that you use to fight to get to your rifle. Also, a combat handgun use needs to consider body armor. In plane words my handgun practice does not revolve around precision target shooting. I do not shoot far enough with a handgun to judge if it shoots flatter.

With that said my 357 Sig loads are 225 feet per second faster than my +P 9MM loads with the exact same projectile. Flatter at 50 Yards? Probably but hardly noticeable. Hitting harder at 50 yards? Yes! Does the extra 225 FPS add some useful range to the 357? Most likely but I've not studied how far.

Modern handgun use has the shooter staying off the body armor and centering on arterial, joint and central nervous system approaches.

 

[Tangent]

One needs to take all my handgun evaluations from my handgun position and that is that a handgun is something that you use to fight to get to your rifle. Also, a combat handgun use needs to consider body armor. In plane words my handgun practice does not revolve around precision target shooting. I do not shoot far enough with a handgun to judge if it shoots flatter.

With that said my 357 Sig loads are 225 feet per second faster than my +P 9MM loads with the exact same projectile. Flatter at 50 Yards? Probably but hardly noticeable. Hitting harder at 50 yards? Yes! Does the extra 225 FPS add some useful range to the 357? Most likely but I've not studied how far.

Modern handgun use has the shooter staying off the body armor and centering on arterial, joint and central nervous system approaches.

Interesting points. I see what you mean regarding distance and usage. I used to shoot the 1500 and you could see the bullets arcing in the right light. Definitely not flat at probably half the velocity of your 357 Sig. I can imagine even with body armour that's going to hurt!