221 Fireball 34gr Dogtown FBHP bullet a Good Combo? Lee Micrometer Die?

[TheCZKid]

Couple quick questions. I'm looking to load for a 221 FB soon, and got a box of Midway 34gr Dogtown FBHP bullets for it. I'm pretty sure these are Nosler, and I have some powders I'm looking to try from Nosler's load page. Since this is a new cartridge for me, I was curious, has anyone tried this bullet in 221FB? This is mainly going to be for sage rats, and rock chucks, open to other critters that make sense for this caliber.

Most folks seem to shoot 40 grain bullets in their 221FB. But, I have a 20 Vartarg that I shoot 32 Vmax, and a 20 Practical I shoot 40 Vmax, and was thinking this 221FB would be good with a bullet weight in between those.

And, second question: Has anybody used the Lee micrometer seating die? I need a FL die, and when browsing I see a set on Midsouth on clearance, with FL die and a micrometer seater for $33.47. The reviews on Midway are good, and I don't see a reason not to buy this set. I have a Redding neck sizing / seater set I purchased recently, but need the FL, so thought I'd ask.

 

[20 TAC]

I have tried neither of these items for Fireball but will be interested to hear your feedback. If the dies produce a quality load, then for that price why not, right?
I never thought to try the 34 grainers, but 40 grain Blitzking and V Max have worked so well in the past I just saw no reason to go lighter. If you have 1680 as an available powder give it a try. It’s a winner in the Fireball case. And Nosler’s max recommended load for both 34 and 40 grainers is quite conservative.

 

[ricco1949]

Couple quick questions. I'm looking to load for a 221 FB soon, and got a box of Midway 34gr Dogtown FBHP bullets for it. I'm pretty sure these are Nosler, and I have some powders I'm looking to try from Nosler's load page. Since this is a new cartridge for me, I was curious, has anyone tried this bullet in 221FB? This is mainly going to be for sage rats, and rock chucks, open to other critters that make sense for this caliber.

Most folks seem to shoot 40 grain bullets in their 221FB. But, I have a 20 Vartarg that I shoot 32 Vmax, and a 20 Practical I shoot 40 Vmax, and was thinking this 221FB would be good with a bullet weight in between those.

And, second question: Has anybody used the Lee micrometer seating die? I need a FL die, and when browsing I see a set on Midsouth on clearance, with FL die and a micrometer seater for $33.47. The reviews on Midway are good, and I don't see a reason not to buy this set. I have a Redding neck sizing / seater set I purchased recently, but need the FL, so thought I'd ask.

View attachment 1730295

CZ:

I use Lee dies for 223 and 222 for PDn loads.

I have carbide reamers to ream the necks to my desired dimension for the FL dies thereby eliminating the need for the expander button. I do the same on Hornady 20 VT dies.

I also bore out the seaters to customize them to the bullet profile with JB.

That micro seater looks nice on the Lee die.

 

[Rick in Oregon]

Doug, those are indeed Nosler bullets, sold bulk to distributors. Basic cup & core bullets.

In both my FB's I chose the 40gr BT and Vdgn's for the poly tip feature, as they have a higher BC than the Dogtowns, and with FB velocity, I need all the help a good profile bullet can produce. But for ranges under 250 yards where most sage rat shooting takes place, those 34 grainers should be entirely adequate.

This is the typical accuracy I'm getting in my Cooper M38 Phoenix 221 Furball, almost always with factory seconds:



And this is the predictable outcome about every time:



These days shooting colony rodents is getting purty dang expensive, so any cost savings is good. Heck, I was in Sportsman's Whs yesterday and saw RL-7 for....gasp!.......$85! When I got home I looked at my stash of that powder and saw the price tags from Sportsman's Whs was $25! Not sure what's going on here, but a price increase of sixty bucks per pound sure seems fishy to me. Not just that store either, but WTH is causing powder to reach these ridiculous prices?

 

[TheCZKid]

I have tried neither of these items for Fireball but will be interested to hear your feedback. If the dies produce a quality load, then for that price why not, right?
I never thought to try the 34 grainers, but 40 grain Blitzking and V Max have worked so well in the past I just saw no reason to go lighter. If you have 1680 as an available powder give it a try. It’s a winner in the Fireball case. And Nosler’s max recommended load for both 34 and 40 grainers is quite conservative.

I do have AA1680, a few pounds, and never found I load it was best in yet. But, you're not the first to say it's a good one of the 221FB, so thanks!

 

[jpx2rk]

I have a few of the LEE microseater tops, and like 'em so far, much easier to make an adjustment with the markings, but how accurate are the adjustments I can't say with any authority. They seem to hold their setting based on the limited use so far.

I have used the 34g DT's in 20P and 204R, they are pretty accurate for the price if you can find the right combo for your gun. The larger HP on these will rip a rat apart at decent speeds to.

 

[TheCZKid]

Doug, those are indeed Nosler bullets, sold bulk to distributors. Basic cup & core bullets.

In both my FB's I chose the 40gr BT and Vdgn's for the poly tip feature, as they have a higher BC than the Dogtowns, and with FB velocity, I need all the help a good profile bullet can produce. But for ranges under 250 yards where most sage rat shooting takes place, those 34 grainers should be entirely adequate.

These days shooting colony rodents is getting purty dang expensive, so any cost savings is good. Heck, I was in Sportsman's Whs yesterday and saw RL-7 for....gasp!.......$85! When I got home I looked at my stash of that powder and saw the price tags from Sportsman's Whs was $25! Not sure what's going on here, but a price increase of sixty bucks per pound sure seems fishy to me. Not just that store either, but WTH is causing powder to reach these ridiculous prices?

Hey Rick, I recently purchased 350 of the 34 grain FBHP from someone here, as the price was good, and I wanted to try something below the 40 grain weight, for a bit extra speed.

And yeah, the price of powder has gone way above what I think is reasonable. That's why when someone says "You should try this powder" and I don't have any of it on hand, it's a real financial investment just to try something these days, especially if I have to add shipping and Hazmat to the cost!

 

[TheCZKid]

I have a few of the LEE microseater tops, and like 'em so far, much easier to make an adjustment with the markings, but how accurate are the adjustments I can't say with any authority. They seem to hold their setting based on the limited use so far.

I have used the 34g DT's in 20P and 204R, they are pretty accurate for the price if you can find the right combo for your gun. The larger HP on these will rip a rat apart at decent speeds to.

For this upcoming 221FB I was able to get a set of Redding neck die and regular seater die for a good price. But, I'm making my own brass from LC 5.56 and am borrowing a buddy's FL RCBS die to form them, and eventually I need my own FL die. Redding FL die new runs $44.99 best price I could find, then saw those Lee FL and micrometer seater, and I'm going to buy the set, the price is right!

 

[ricco1949]

I do have AA1680, a few pounds, and never found I load it was best in yet. But, you're not the first to say it's a good one of the 221FB, so thanks!

I've always shot CFE BLK and 40VMs and 39 TNTs in the VT but I had a pound of 1680 to use up so I loaded up 400 32 VMs to test drive on the first 2026 dog trip.

This is the load development target. I like 1680 far better than CFE BLK even though they both shoot about the same. CFE BLK is bulkier and 18.0g comes up the neck a ways creating spilling issues on 650 and 1050 Dillons.

The recent 1680 target is with 3500 rounds on the barrel just after a reset.

I shortened the barrel 4 inches, to 22 inches to fit in a 54 inch case with a can. I decided to take some of it off the breech to freshen up the throat. IIRC I cut off the whole tenon.

I suspect you can find a decent load with that 1680 in your FB or VT.

 

[TheCZKid]

Those are some good looking test results!

My 20VT likes N120 and RL-7 the best.

My 17 Hornet likes CFE BLK the best, and I have a decent amount on hand of that as well. I have the following powders to test: RL-7, AA 1680, IMR 4198, AA 2200, and maybe CFE BLK as well.

 

[Rick300]

My 20VT likes N120 and RL-7 the best.

+1

 

[snert]

I use th edogtown in 34 grains in 20 caliber. I find that the 40 grain and the 32 grain poly bulets, and especially the 40 grain berger shoot tighter. But the DT is about perfect for 250 yard PD. Can't beat what I paid for them 5000 at just over $100 bucks a few years ago.

 

[Jrjones]

My father shot thousands of those 34’s in his 221 fireball. He always liked 4198. He’s had a lot of fun with them.

 

[TheCZKid]

Well, I ended up buying the Sako L461 in 221 FB on Monday. I'm in the process of refinishing the stock, but it's looking a lot better now that when I got it. It's got a 23.75" barrel which is likely a Douglas or Lilja, according the gun dealer I got it from. It's only marked .221R, has 14 twist, so lighter bullets.





And have been out a couple of times shooting it. We have good weather this winter, for which I'm VERY grateful.

I shot a test yesterday which I saw someone do on a YouTube video. They took the load range of minimum to maximum of a particular powder, and shot one bullet each in a ladder onto one target. Then looked at where the shots hit, and looked at the speeds. The ones that hit in a closer cluster gave an idea where to do further testing. I don't know if there's a name for that kind of test, but I'm sure there is. They compared the speeds to what Gordon's Reloading Tool said was expected, and got some wisdom from that. I just downloaded GRT but have not tried to use it yet.



Those are 8 shots, newly formed brass, Rem 7.5 primers, 1.720" OAL. From 16.8, 17.1, 17.4, 17.7, 18.0, 18.3, 18.6, 18.9 grains. For reference, the distance from shot 4 to shot 6 is .97" apart.

Last night I loaded some tests in groups of 3 to test, hopefully today. New tests are 18.0, 18.1, 18.2, 18.3, 18.4, 18.6, 18.8.

I adjusted the trigger down from about 2.2 pounds to 1 pound 7 ounces, and want to see how that does also. It passes the bump test, and seems to function well.

 

[Jrjones]

I’ve got one w a lilja 11tw 3g in 20cal. 20-222. You’re gonna love that thing for walking. I know I sure like mine. I use 20.5gr h4198 w 32’s in mine. Had it reblued. Looks brand new. A dandy

 

[Rick in Oregon]

I’ve got one w a lilja 11tw 3g in 20cal. 20-222. You’re gonna love that thing for walking. I know I sure like mine. I use 20.5gr h4198 w 32’s in mine. Had it reblued. Looks brand new. A dandy

Beautiful rifle!
The white-line spacers tells me it's from the 70's era if not mistaken, along with the forend tip treatment.
Love those Sako Vixens!

 

[linebaugh]

Mine loved RL7 if you have some it might be worth a try.
Also interested in how that lee micro seater works and if its comatible with other dies.

 

[Jrjones]

At least idk. It was a 222 bofors marked barrel rifle. It was badly pitted and rusted on the inside. So I had it redone

 

[TheCZKid]

Mine loved RL7 if you have some it might be worth a try.
Also interested in how that lee micro seater works and if its compatible with other dies.

Right now I'm just testing the 34gr Dogtown bullets, and was thinking of also testing N120 and RL7, IMR 4198, but I don't have a load for RL7 for these lighter bullets. Not sure if it's the right speed.

If I buy some 40 grain bullets, I'd be interested in suggestions for what shoots well in the 221.

The Lee dies I ordered on the 12th, and they have not shipped yet, dang it!

 

[TheCZKid]

Beautiful rifle!
The white-line spacers tells me it's from the 70's era if not mistaken, along with the forend tip treatment.
Love those Sako Vixens!

It turned out it's an H&R stock from the butt-pad, from what I can tell, and dating 1966 is best guess. The rear of stock has a black spacer, then white, then recoil pad. Maybe they added the white to accent the lines between the forend and grip caps.


It ture