Seating Depth vs Tuner - what are your thoughts?

[quest450]

Not at all. I’ve always gone the full development route but I have a tuner and have been told you can get your velocity and skip the seating depth test and start dialing. So I thought I’d get some info before wasting time.

you're on the right track, post #18 is how's done with a tuner I guess since I'm not a big fan of tuners for various reasons, I believe I can tune up my rifle with powder charge, primer, seating depth and neck tension and don't have to guess if things go sideways in the middle of a match.

 

[Paddyd]

Establish the powder charge, then start testing depths. Tuners won't make a bad load shoot small. They help good loads shoot smaller, but theres a sequence of events that have to be followed or you'll never get anywhere.

 

[Fast14riot]

Tuners are for after the load has been developed and tested at distance. Look up tuner test targets and you'll see what a tuner does.

 

[Dfin]

Establish the powder charge, then start testing depths. Tuners won't make a bad load shoot small. They help good loads shoot smaller, but theres a sequence of events that have to be followed or you'll

you're on the right track, post #18 is how's done with a tuner I guess since I'm not a big fan of tuners for various reasons, I believe I can tune up my rifle with powder charge, primer, seating depth and neck tension and don't have to guess if things go sideways in the middle of a match.

On seating depth testing I’ve always run 3shot groups, starting at .005” jump and increasing by .003” until I get to roughly .060” jump. Should I be doing it differently?

 

[quest450]

that sounds about right for a precision, PRS rifle, I shoot 600 & 1K benchrest using custom KHP 6mm bullets and the sweet spot is 8thou in, chambered with my BRA reamer the seating depth hasn't changed much in my last 10 barrels.

don't be shy and test jamed bullets up to 20-25 thou

 

[Paddyd]

On seating depth testing I’ve always run 3shot groups, starting at .005” jump and increasing by .003” until I get to roughly .060” jump. Should I be doing it differently?

Not necessarily, Many people are loading out to max magazine length and seat deeper from that, but I start .008" to .010" into the lands. Not a hard jam, just in. Then I move away in .003" increments. Most nodes tend to pop up about every .006".

 

[Dfin]

that sounds about right for a precision, PRS rifle, I shoot 600 & 1K benchrest using custom KHP 6mm bullets and the sweet spot is 8thou in, chambered with my BRA reamer the seating depth hasn't changed much in my last 10 barrels.

don't be shy and test jamed bullets up to 20-25 thou

Regarding charge weight - for a few years I’ve been doing standard 10shot ladder tests to find velocity nodes. Last year I started doing the same ladder but with 10shots per charge weight shooting round-robin style, and the results were very different than the one shot per charge. I did find a consistent flat spot around 2910. This was a 6GT with Berger Hybrid 105’s. I’ve switched to a 6BRA for PRS and want to make sure I’m doing things right.

 

[Fast14riot]

Regarding charge weight - for a few years I’ve been doing standard 10shot ladder tests to find velocity nodes. Last year I started doing the same ladder but with 10shots per charge weight shooting round-robin style, and the results were very different than the one shot per charge. I did find a consistent flat spot around 2910. This was a 6GT with Berger Hybrid 105’s. I’ve switched to a 6BRA for PRS and want to make sure I’m doing things right.

Try doing a seating depth first with a middle charge weight or safe, known accurate charge. Then once a good seating depth is established do a charge test in 3-5 round groups on a horizontal target, look for the groups at the top of the swing and they should coincide with best groups. Take 10 of those to long range for validation and chronograph it then. If ES and SD are wildly off, or you just can't get it to shoot, then switch powders.

 

[shoot4fun]

I am actually, not hurting my feelings at all, just wanted to see if they have any merit before I waste time.
I know and understand the full process, and have used it on many cartridges with many barrels, but I’ve never really used a tuner. Just thought I’d ask.

I don't use tuners either, at least on center fire. I do use them on rimfire and they are very good in that situation, once you have some understanding of what to do to keep it tight.

 

[JFrank]

Regarding charge weight - for a few years I’ve been doing standard 10shot ladder tests to find velocity nodes. Last year I started doing the same ladder but with 10shots per charge weight shooting round-robin style, and the results were very different than the one shot per charge. I did find a consistent flat spot around 2910. This was a 6GT with Berger Hybrid 105’s. I’ve switched to a 6BRA for PRS and want to make sure I’m doing things right.

10 shots per charge will eat a barrel quickly.

 

[quest450]

3 shot ladder @ 6 or 1K will tell you ALL you need to know, trust the paper !

 

[Owens85]

3 shot ladder @ 6 or 1K will tell you ALL you need to know, trust the paper !

Yep This!!

 

[Bill Norris]

On a podcast "Believe the Target" Erik Cortina tells Mark Gordon that he has re-arranged his load work-up method and has tested tuner adjustments directly after powder work-up and realized that once the tuner makes the barrel harmonics happy with a certain load then there is very little gains to be had by seat depth testing from .020 off the lands all the way out to .150 off the lands. Not sure if that is still his findings as he was still testing at that particular time.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I shoot a 30BR in Varmint for Score.

With the 30 BR, seating depth is EXTREMELY important. It is the one thing I will not change short of seeing “The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse” coming over the Burm.
When I install a barrel, I adjust the tuner to optimize my tune and avoid messing with it unless I catch myself stuck in a horizontal tune, which can drive you crazy in Score Shooting.

 

[Dfin]

Not necessarily, Many people are loading out to max magazine length and seat deeper from that, but I start .008" to .010" into the lands. Not a hard jam, just in. Then I move away in .003" increments. Most nodes tend to pop up about every .006".

What do you mean when you say .008”-.010” into the lands. Is that load that far past touch?

 

[Dfin]

that sounds about right for a precision, PRS rifle, I shoot 600 & 1K benchrest using custom KHP 6mm bullets and the sweet spot is 8thou in, chambered with my BRA reamer the seating depth hasn't changed much in my last 10 barrels.

don't be shy and test jamed bullets up to 20-25 thou

Does that mean load to 20-25 thou past jam?

 

[Fire Dog]

that sounds about right for a precision, PRS rifle, I shoot 600 & 1K benchrest using custom KHP 6mm bullets and the sweet spot is 8thou in, chambered with my BRA reamer the seating depth hasn't changed much in my last 10 barrels.

don't be shy and test jamed bullets up to 20-25 thou

Gonna need a lot of neck tension…. ^^^^^^^^ otherwise the bullet will just reach a point of being shoved back into the cartridge.
Hope you never have to unload a live round… Keep it pointed up and hopefully you won’t wind up with an action and trigger goup full of powder as for sure you will leave the projectile stuck in the barrel…

 

[quest450]

Does that mean load to 20-25 thou past jam?

yes, 20-25 thou into the lands past TOUCH point/lands and you need to find your lands as soon as you screw a new barrel on.

 

[jimmymac]

Gonna need a lot of neck tension…. ^^^^^^^^ otherwise the bullet will just reach a point of being shoved back into the cartridge.
Hope you never have to unload a live round… Keep it pointed up and hopefully you won’t wind up with an action and trigger goup full of powder as for sure you will leave the projectile stuck in the barrel…

Don’t know about PRS, but it is pretty common in BR to have bullet seated well beyond the touch point.

Before I start load development with a new barrel, I find touch and record that dimension. After that, I size a case with my preferred bushing, than seat a bullet 50 or 60 thou longer than my touch dimension. Once I am there, I smear a bit of lube on the bullet then load the dummy round into chamber. At that point, the bolt has performed the final bullet seating operation. Once the dummy round is extracted, I measure the CBTO and record that dimension too. I now have the touch point CBTO and the maximum length CBTO dimensions at my disposal. Armed with that data, load development can then begin.

 

[perazziguy]

I think that's the thought process for many .

But if I put a tuner on my (insert latest, greatest , flat billed influencer rifle), I'll be a world beater...Right?!?