Factory match ammo question

[cjmac]

So just really curious how factory match ammo like federal gold medal match , hornady and the military match is so accurate in multiple rifles? Is it load density, burn rate ?
Another im interested is it would be nice to have a hunting load with ballistic tips and soft points that I could use in all 3 of my 308 . We hunt short range , 100-180 yards max so if I have 1.5in groups at 150 or 180 yards thats plenty
Im gonna use a 150 gr

 

[243winxb]

burn rate

I used IMR 4895. H4895 should work as well, with 150 gr.

Different bullet brand, different accuracy. Sierra my choice.

 

[Doom]

It would probably be good to search Dan Newberry and Optimum Charge Weight. His OCW site is being redone but go here and you'll get some info.

BangSteel Long Range shooting School

Training Long Range American Riflemen

bangsteel.com

Whether OCW exists or not will be debatable but it and what Chris Long theorized in Optimum Barrel Time do seem to have merit. BUT, when you go on the internet you will see everything from it works great to never seen it. Remember that you are seeing tests run in 22 lb F-Open rifles with 1.25" bull barrels to pencil thin 6 lb hunting rifles. It matters.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Sierra and Lyman manuals have accuracy loads or best powder tested, that might be a good place to start.

 

[Doom]

In my first post I passed on some info because Dan asked the same question. But the bottom line is accurate loads require quality components. It also requires consistency in reloading. I have weighted FGMM 308 cartridges and a box will not very by 1 grain for twenty rounds. Powder selection is important as every cartridge has powder that match well. Another often overlooked aspect of accuracy is that the most consistent loads are lees than max loads. Here is a video that you might find interesting.

 

[cjmac]

I used IMR 4895. H4895 should work as well, with 150 gr.

Different bullet brand, different accuracy. Sierra my choice.

I have lot of varget lol

 

[cjmac]

It would probably be good to search Dan Newberry and Optimum Charge Weight. His OCW site is being redone but go here and you'll get some info.

BangSteel Long Range shooting School

Training Long Range American Riflemen

bangsteel.com

Whether OCW exists or not will be debatable but it and what Chris Long theorized in Optimum Barrel Time do seem to have merit. BUT, when you go on the internet you will see everything from it works great to never seen it. Remember that you are seeing tests run in 22 lb F-Open rifles with 1.25" bull barrels to pencil thin 6 lb hunting rifles. It matters.

Ill definitely check this out .
I think it has lot to do with more of a full case and that making it more consistent pressure and burn rate ?

 

[cjmac]

Sierra and Lyman manuals have accuracy loads or best powder tested, that might be a good place to start.

Now you mentioned that I do remember seeing that in my sierra book. If i remember right it list accuracy load then hunting load

 

[Straightshooter1]

So just really curious how factory match ammo like federal gold medal match , hornady and the military match is so accurate in multiple rifles? Is it load density, burn rate ?

From what I've observed and heard, it's a lot about matching the powder and bullet for them. And load density is indeed an important factor.

Though companies produce what they'll class as "match grade" cartridges, mass produced cartridges just can't equal what precision hand reloaders can do. Maybe one day technology will be able to, but it's not there yet.

Like on a couple different occasions, I took a box of Federal Gold Metal Match cartridges, taking 10 of the 20 in the box apart to weigh and uniform the powder weight (weighing the total powder and recharging the cases by dividing that weight by 10) and reseat the bullets back to the original COAL. Then I compared the results. Just uniforming the powder weight made a big difference in the performance from those others from the same box.

Another im interested is it would be nice to have a hunting load with ballistic tips and soft points that I could use in all 3 of my 308 . We hunt short range , 100-180 yards max so if I have 1.5in groups at 150 or 180 yards thats plenty
Im gonna use a 150 gr

Ya just have to test and see what works.

 

[cjmac]

From what I've observed and heard, it's a lot about matching the powder and bullet for them. And load density is indeed an important factor.

Though companies produce what they'll class as "match grade" cartridges, mass produced cartridges just can't equal what precision hand reloaders can do. Maybe one day technology will be able to, but it's not there yet.

Like on a couple different occasions, I took a box of Federal Gold Metal Match cartridges, taking 10 of the 20 in the box apart to weigh and uniform the powder weight (weighing the total powder and recharging the cases by dividing that weight by 10) and reseat the bullets back to the original COAL. Then I compared the results. Just uniforming the powder weight made a big difference in the performance from those others from the same box.


Ya just have to test and see what works.

Very interesting

 

[Infrequent Shooter]

Fed GMM in 308 has two bullet weights as I recall, the 168 and a 150something.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

The Texas Plinking 1,000 yard, Steel Challenge, Has been Won by Hornady's, Precision Match, 140 gr. ELD-M Ammo,.. SEVERAL Times, in 6.5 Creedmoor ( Must Be,.. pretty Good ammunition ).
I'm sure that, those using It, probably Tested, a couple of Lot #'s before buying,.. a Bunch of It, tho

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

So just really curious how factory match ammo like federal gold medal match , hornady and the military match is so accurate in multiple rifles? Is it load density, burn rate ?
Another im interested is it would be nice to have a hunting load with ballistic tips and soft points that I could use in all 3 of my 308 . We hunt short range , 100-180 yards max so if I have 1.5in groups at 150 or 180 yards thats plenty
Im gonna use a 150 gr

We used Old Bruce Hogdons, 4895 with 150 grain Bullets in Our .30-06's,.. FOR,.. Years !
Always, was Accurate !
Today's H-4895 is still One of, the Best Powders,.. Available, IF it works in "Your" Cartridge.

 

[Straightshooter1]

The Texas Plinking 1,000 yard, Steel Challenge, Has been Won by Hornady's, Precision Match, 140 gr. ELD-M Ammo,.. SEVERAL Times, in 6.5 Creedmoor ( Must Be,.. pretty Good ammunition ).
I'm sure that, those using It, probably Tested, a couple of Lot #'s before buying,.. a Bunch of It, tho

I'm fascinated by test like these:

6.5 Creedmoor Ammo Test Summary: Hit Probability At Long-Range

Choosing the right ammo can dramatically increase your odds of connecting with a target at long ran...

precisionrifleblog.com

 

[Webster]

So just really curious how factory match ammo like federal gold medal match , hornady and the military match is so accurate in multiple rifles? Is it load density, burn rate ?
Another im interested is it would be nice to have a hunting load with ballistic tips and soft points that I could use in all 3 of my 308 . We hunt short range , 100-180 yards max so if I have 1.5in groups at 150 or 180 yards thats plenty
Im gonna use

Some companies probably make bullet swaging dies by old machining methods. If they are made by CNC they should be made to tighter dimensions. Kelbley doesn't make bullets but his machine shop has many CNC machines for making receivers add other parts. I don't know if they cut chambers by CNC?

a 150

 

[searcher]

I'm fascinated by test like these:

6.5 Creedmoor Ammo Test Summary: Hit Probability At Long-Range

Choosing the right ammo can dramatically increase your odds of connecting with a target at long ran...

precisionrifleblog.com

View attachment 1722690

This is the type of test that really doesn't mean much IMHO. That is 42 rounds of each bullet. Were they tested in many rifles? With only 760 rounds fired, kind of misleading, to say the least.

 

[searcher]

To comment on cjmac's question, I think ammo manufacturers have become dramatically more competitive in their own right relative to how good their ammo shoots. The internet holds everyone to a higher level, I think.

Once in a while, we come across a particular powder that truly does shoot great in a lot of rifles. I have seen certain powders excel accuracy-wise in many rifles. We see that with Varget or Reloader 15 in 6BR, N133 in the PPC, Reloader 22 in 7 MM Rem Mag, 8208XBR in 6.5 Grendel, Accurate LT32 in 20 Practical, CFEBLK in .17 Hornet, Reloader 15 in .243, etc, etc. In those calibers, it is rare that a gun won't shoot reasonably well , if not excellent, with the respective powder - but the velocity might not be as desired, etc. - and that is where the manufacturers blend to make a good powder better for that bullet to attain the desired velocity and still fit in the case at the proper level, etc. They just keep getting better.

I have never shot factory Lapua ammo out of my 6BR's. I have always wondered how well that shoots, coming from a big company that ALSO makes some fantastic brass and bullets. Have any of you folks ever shot any? Results? Just curious.

 

[Straightshooter1]

This is the type of test that really doesn't mean much IMHO. That is 42 rounds of each bullet. Were they tested in many rifles? With only 760 rounds fired, kind of misleading, to say the least.

Of course, different rifles will produce different results. The test, for me, simply shows what kind a variability there can be . . .not that I can expect those specific results out of my gun. . . which would be kind of naive.

Well, they did use two different guns:

 

[searcher]

Of course, different rifles will produce different results. The test, for me, simply shows what kind a variability there can be . . .not that I can expect those specific results out of my gun. . . which would be kind of naive.

Well, they did use two different guns:
View attachment 1722948

Yeah, I assumed that was what they were trying to show. There are a lot of folks that don't realize that the "worst" of their bullets might shoot the best in their particular rifle with the correct load and vice-a-versa. To even say that one bullet is the best in those two rifles would involve a truly exhaustive amount of testing. Would probably wear out the barrels with all the conceivable variables of powder, primers, seating depths, powder charges, etc. Even then, I doubt the same bullet would win out in both rifles with the best of each load combination. Anything is possible, though. Even when I'm testing three or four "semi-finalist" loads to determine which I'll keep as my load, I always shoot five shot groups of each bullet, then shoot another batch of five shot groups in the same order, then average the two groups from each bullet. That helps to average out the effect conditions had on my test. Shooting at 1,000 yards, that wind has much more effect.
Those types of gun comparison tests are better suited to seeing what factory ammo might shoot better - but even then - it should be done with at least three or four of the exact same rifles.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Federal believes it's the benchrest primer and matchking bullet.