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Shooting Associations -- Freedom, IBS, NBRSA, UBR,++

ELR Harry

Not trying to stir anything up here, but was curious what everyone thinks about all the different organizations "governing" benchrest shooting sports and the variations in rules and rule making. I am new to the sport but it feels like the boxing world with a half dozen different organizations all competing for the largest purse and audience. Has anyone tried or even thought about aligning these organizations into a single entity with absolute rule making authority.

If only equipment and target rules were standardized based maybe on distance to target it would allow new shooters or those of us on a budget to shoot in more competitions sponsored by the various organizations. IMO it would be nice to have 4 or 5 regional championships, with one final "National Championship" somewhere in the middle of the country. I for one, and probably most new shooters who want to get into the sport that are not retired, have kids or cannot afford to travel thousands of miles each year to participate in the higher profile matches are stuck shooting local club matches...especially 1000 yard matches due to the lack of available facilities.
 
ELR Harry said:
Not trying to stir anything up here, but was curious what everyone thinks about all the different organizations "governing" benchrest shooting sports and the variations in rules and rule making. I am new to the sport but it feels like the boxing world with a half dozen different organizations all competing for the largest purse and audience. Has anyone tried or even thought about aligning these organizations into a single entity with absolute rule making authority.

If only equipment and target rules were standardized based maybe on distance to target it would allow new shooters or those of us on a budget to shoot in more competitions sponsored by the various organizations. IMO it would be nice to have 4 or 5 regional championships, with one final "National Championship" somewhere in the middle of the country. I for one, and probably most new shooters who want to get into the sport that are not retired, have kids or cannot afford to travel thousands of miles each year to participate in the higher profile matches are stuck shooting local club matches...especially 1000 yard matches due to the lack of available facilities.
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UBR has very few rules compared to the other orgs and it has a class for just about whatever ya have, 30 cal or less. That's about it for Unlimited class equipment rules. Custom class is more similar to IBS/NBRSA HV class. Just about anything under 13.5lbs, 30 cal or less. Their procedural rules are very similar to IBS VFS class. Being caliber neutral, it's up to you if you wanna shoot a 30, a 6 or a 22. There's no scoring advantage to shooting one over the others. In that regard, it's similar to group, as well as the 11pt scoring system...You can't leave much on the table but you can overcome one bad shot. Just don't count on it. Lol!
 
Someone in the leadership of these or organizations has to blink and compramize with others. Egos are involved and it seems unlikely that will ever happen. The rank and file are often seen at each others matches, and some belong to more than one organization. As for cost, it's a simple law, "accuracy costs money, and how accurate can you afford to be?" Some types are less expensive than others, but to be competitive you must invest the money and the time. A family man has less time and other priorities for money and so has a steep wall to climb. If competition is the only goal and results and wins secondary to just improvement, then Benchrest is your game.
 
I could write an entire book on this question. Here is a synopsis.
Before 1970, Benchrest, in particular Short Range Benchrest, had one major Sanctioning Body, The National Benchrest Shooters Association. (NBRSA). Its mandate was to exemplify rifle performance by shooting Groups.
In 1970, there was a split, and the International Benchrest Shooters Association was formed. (IBS). Why this occurred is a book within a book and is old history.

Both of these Organizations have very similar rules regarding the Rifles used in Competition except for the Class Sporter. In IBS, a Sporter is simply a Light Varmint Rifle firing a bullet not less than .230 in diameter.

In NBRSA Sporter, there are no stock rules, no barrel profile rules, no caliber restriction as long as it does not exceed .338, no sight restrictions. The catch is it can still only weigh 10.5 pounds, which history has proven made it dead on arrival. I know of no one taking advantage of these non restrictions. 99.99% of shooters simply shoot their legal Light Varmint in NBRSA Sporter Class.

Both organizations also have Score Shooting Disciplines. In both NBRSA and IBS, they use Best Edge Scoring, The two Disciplines are Varmint for Score and Hunters Benchrest. Varmint for Score is shot with a legal Heavy Varmint Rifle.

Hunters have specific rules that are unique to it. The weight limit is 10 pounds. There are some action restrictions, mainly it cannot be a solid bottom action. The forearm of the stock cannot exceed 2 1/4 inches in width. And, the item that really defines the class, the scope is limited to 6x magnification.

Freedom Benchrest was formed just a year ago for reasons I would rather not get into here. Perhaps one of their members can explain it.

Then there is UBR. This Discipline is a recent one, shooting Score with best edge scoring but using caliber neutral targets. There are some other differences, but the caliber neutral targets is the main defining factor.

I will not get into long range because I do not shoot long range Competition.

I can tell you one thing that can simplify things for you as a new shooter. If you wish to shoot Short Range Benchrest, simply build a legal NBRSA or IBS Light Varmint Rifle and you can shoot it in any Match any where in the Country, be it Group or Score, NBRSA, IBS, UBR, or Freedom.

You would be surprised how many shooters do exactly that.
 
jackieschmidt said:
I could write an entire book on this question. Here is a synopsis.
Before 1970, Benchrest, in particular Short Range Benchrest, had one major Sanctioning Body, The National Benchrest Shooters Association. (NBRSA). Its mandate was to exemplify rifle performance by shooting Groups.
In 1970, there was a split, and the International Benchrest Shooters Association was formed. (IBS). Why this occurred is a book within a book and is old history.

Both of these Organizations have very similar rules regarding the Rifles used in Competition except for the Class Sporter. In IBS, a Sporter is simply a Light Varmint Rifle firing a bullet not less than .230 in diameter.

In NBRSA Sporter, there are no stock rules, no barrel profile rules, no caliber restriction as long as it does not exceed .338, no sight restrictions. The catch is it can still only weigh 10.5 pounds, which history has proven made it dead on arrival. I know of no one taking advantage of these non restrictions. 99.99% of shooters simply shoot their legal Light Varmint in NBRSA Sporter Class.

Both organizations also have Score Shooting Disciplines. In both NBRSA and IBS, they use Best Edge Scoring, The two Disciplines are Varmint for Score and Hunters Benchrest. Varmint for Score is shot with a legal Heavy Varmint Rifle.

Hunters have specific rules that are unique to it. The weight limit is 10 pounds. There are some action restrictions, mainly it cannot be a solid bottom action. The forearm of the stock cannot exceed 2 1/4 inches in width. And, the item that really defines the class, the scope is limited to 6x magnification.

Freedom Benchrest was formed just a year ago for reasons I would rather not get into here. Perhaps one of their members can explain it.

Then there is UBR. This Discipline is a recent one, shooting Score with best edge scoring but using caliber neutral targets. There are some other differences, but the caliber neutral targets is the main defining factor.

I will not get into long range because I do not shoot long range Competition.

I can tell you one thing that can simplify things for you as a new shooter. If you wish to shoot Short Range Benchrest, simply build a legal NBRSA or IBS Light Varmint Rifle and you can shoot it in any Match any where in the Country, be it Group or Score, NBRSA, IBS, UBR, or Freedom.

You would be surprised how many shooters do exactly that.
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Your opinion still matters but...You hesitate to comment on LR because you don't shoot it. So, I'll ask it...do you shoot UBR?
 
Honestly, I would look into what rules/matches are shot near you. I cannot comment on any of the reasons for or rules on the various BR sanctioning bodies since I don't shoot it currently, but I do follow it. Here on the west coast Freedom is gaining traction and has recently added a short range program. I am also a working dad and have limits on when/how much I can shoot, so I found the game with the most matches at higher level competition that my home range also shoots (F/class in my case) and travel to a couple bigger matches a year in adjacent states.
 
ELR Harry said:
Not trying to stir anything up here, but was curious what everyone thinks about all the different organizations "governing" benchrest shooting sports and the variations in rules and rule making. I am new to the sport but it feels like the boxing world with a half dozen different organizations all competing for the largest purse and audience. Has anyone tried or even thought about aligning these organizations into a single entity with absolute rule making authority.

If only equipment and target rules were standardized based maybe on distance to target it would allow new shooters or those of us on a budget to shoot in more competitions sponsored by the various organizations. IMO it would be nice to have 4 or 5 regional championships, with one final "National Championship" somewhere in the middle of the country. I for one, and probably most new shooters who want to get into the sport that are not retired, have kids or cannot afford to travel thousands of miles each year to participate in the higher profile matches are stuck shooting local club matches...especially 1000 yard matches due to the lack of available facilities.
Click to expand...
You bring up some good points. Last I counted for LR we have 9 "Nationals". The point of a Nats is to shoot against the best in the Nation not just locals. Every time we split we hurt our sport. Theres less attendance at most ranges today and far less new shooters getting into the sport. Its not the economy either, F class is strong and growing. I get the emails and calls from guys that want to get into the sport. Lots of interest in F open, not BR. F class, has one sanctioning body with one set of rules. Was not that long ago we had over 100 shooters at the 600yd nats. So far as gun rules go with the IBS. That will be legal with every one else. Freedom rules really come down to the match director so you need to check with them. They can do pretty much anything they want with gun rules or formats, essentially there are no set in stone rules. Thats why you see a very different match on the west coast than on the east coast. Theres no consistency. It does make it confusing for a new guy. If you have specific questions I will do my best to help. We need to help out the best we can with new shooters since theres so few.
 
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D Coots said:
On the other hand, I can see UBR having a place in the future. May grow the sport.

Later

Dave
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I agree.
We discussed the UBR Format for or Club Matches last year, it was a resounding no.
But that revolved around most of our shooters heavily invested in 30 cal. Also, complaints were the only targets available were for 22, 6mm, and 30. That can possibly be gotten around with a suitable scoring reticle, which does have it’s problems.
Technically, it’s a neutral format, except 30’s that are used in IBS and NBRSA Varmint for Score where best edge scoring rules give up a lot in recoil and gun handling.

If the NBRSA ever adopted a caliber neutral Format, I would probably be shooting a 22PPC .100 Short.
 
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D Coots said:
Make up rules as you go.
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Like literally during the sighter period!

Alex Wheeler said:
You bring up some good points. Last I counted for LR we have 9 "Nationals". The point of a Nats is to shoot against the best in the Nation not just locals. Every time we split we hurt our sport. Theres less attendance at most ranges today and far less new shooters getting into the sport. Its not the economy either, F class is strong and growing. I get the emails and calls from guys that want to get into the sport. Lots of interest in F open, not BR. F class, has one sanctioning body with one set of rules. Was not that long ago we had over 100 shooters at the 600yd nats. So far as gun rules go with the IBS. That will be legal with every one else. Freedom rules really come down to the match director so you need to check with them. They can do pretty much anything they want with gun rules or formats, essentially there are no set in stone rules. Thats why you see a very different match on the west coast than on the east coast. Theres no consistency. It does make it confusing for a new guy. If you have specific questions I will do my best to help. We need to help out the best we can with new shooters since theres so few.
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I was noticing turnouts as well. It varies, but seems 30-40% with some worse yet.

ELR Harry said:
Not trying to stir anything up here, but was curious what everyone thinks about all the different organizations "governing" benchrest shooting sports and the variations in rules and rule making. I am new to the sport but it feels like the boxing world with a half dozen different organizations all competing for the largest purse and audience. Has anyone tried or even thought about aligning these organizations into a single entity with absolute rule making authority.

If only equipment and target rules were standardized based maybe on distance to target it would allow new shooters or those of us on a budget to shoot in more competitions sponsored by the various organizations. IMO it would be nice to have 4 or 5 regional championships, with one final "National Championship" somewhere in the middle of the country. I for one, and probably most new shooters who want to get into the sport that are not retired, have kids or cannot afford to travel thousands of miles each year to participate in the higher profile matches are stuck shooting local club matches...especially 1000 yard matches due to the lack of available facilities.
Click to expand...

Yes, it would be great if there was one "thing"! Preferably one that is owned and ran by the members of it, and is set up to still be around when your kids want to take their kids to a 1,000 yard Benchrest match.

Unfortunately we are further from that today than we were yesterday. Not all, but some organizations were created for the wrong reasons, and that's all that I'll say about that for now. This has hurt the sport, as Alex posted, and creats a "tribal mentality". For that reason, you see the difference in attendance at matches, albeit localized.

Alex had it right for mid and long range, the IBS "major" rules, rifles, rests etc. haven't changed, and are the most conservative. If you make your equipment around those rules, you should be good anywhere you travel. You're welcome to Deep Creek anytime! The rules are simply as they're wrote in the rulebook, without exemptions in the match flyer.

Thanks, Tom
 
I have been following this sub-forum due to interest in competition after shooting the past 4 winters in an informal local league that runs just 10 weeks and we shoot a different target each week, we also vary range distances from 100, 200, 300yds. To which when I came upon the UBR it seriously piqued my interest.

Sadly as much as Wisconsin is a shooters haven there is absolutely nothing being offered in terms of Competition, Center Fire Rifle. Especially for the short to mid range type shooting. Then I can extend that even down into Illinois.

Now there are a couple of Long Range matches through out the year and a group shooting PRS matches but I cannot compete in PRS due to some disabilities and the 600yd long range matches are all a few hours drive with very limited availability for practice.

I would love to institute a UBR program at the public range nearby that has the ranges available to hold 100, 200 and 300yd matches, just not getting much positive support or feedback from them.
 
ELR Harry said:
Not trying to stir anything up here, but was curious what everyone thinks about all the different organizations "governing" benchrest shooting sports and the variations in rules and rule making.
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ELR Harry, Where are you located, regionally?? I’m assuming west coast…
 
R.Morehouse said:
I would like to see long-range light varmint bumped to 22lb. This would make the f-open guys be able to compete without needing to build a gun for it. You could still use your existing 17lb. gun, as most do, and win, in LR-HG.

Regards
Rick
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I understand what your trying to do but it wont work. If F class shooters wanted to shoot BR they would shoot BR. They want to shoot F class. Same with PRS shooters. We have never been able to pull shooters like that. Plus 22 pound guns are easier to shoot. The NBRSA tried 22 pounds for a couple years and went back to 17. The west coast Freedom Nats is going to 22, I dont know about their regular season.
 
jackieschmidt said:
Just for my information, what are some of the problems in Long Range that could be addressed.
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Jackie, in my opinion we didnt have any real problems other than a lack of a match format. 600 is strong because of that in my opinion. They did have one set of rules and one format. 1k on the other hand had 3 in the IBS. Now its unlimited. Obviously not everyone would consider this a problem, but I dont see how a sport can last without a structured format that everyone follows. All legitimate sports do this. That problem actually started in the IBS. I was on the long range committee at the time. If memory serves me we were to settle on a single format after a trial period. It never happened.
 
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