40 Gr. Ballistic Tips in 12 twist .204R barrel??

[SBS]

Like most, I found that the 40 Gr. V-Max did not shoot well in my 12T Savage .204 Ruger barrel and have been using the 39 Blitzking. What about the Nosler 40 Gr. BT in this barrel? Haven't seen much posted about it; anyone have some good groups with them?

 

[TAJ45]

No first hand experience but do a very precise twist check on your rifle. It may be a bit slower than intended.
Many factory cf bbls have finished .3 - .5 slower. Meaning 12.3 - 12.5 which will make a difference, especially when on the edge of heavier for cal pills.

 

[JB10]

When i got my 204r i read about issues so i just settled on 35gr bergers. They kill pretty good. When i built another 20cal i ordered a 1:10 twist so i could shoot the 40s and it does it well.

 

[Hotshot]

Years ago I used 40 grain Nosler for my prairie dog loads and they were very accurate. At some point the Nosler bullets became hard to get so I switched over to Sierra and Hornady. First loads I try in a new 204 are the Hornady and they seem to work well in most factory rifles. If the rifle doesn’t like the hornady then I go to the ridiculous priced sierra’s.

 

[SBS]

The 39 Blitzking does very well in my factory barrel 204R, but sometimes hard to find, so wondering about using the 40 BT in it?

 

[Fern]

I like you did not have good luck with 40g vmax. I never found noslers to try. I traded some Bergen’s for 39sbk and got ok groups but not great.
At that point I decided to have my rifle re barreled with 11 twist and groups vmax just fine but 39sbk really shine

 

[L.Sherm]

I would stay with the 39BK just buy enough to last the barrel or go lighter bullets. Another option is rebarrel to a 3G11 twist then no problems with any bullet up to 40gr.

 

[Tommie]

Considering VMaxes wont stabilize in your barrel, the Noslers at best would be marginally stable.
Very marginally.

 

[SBS]

Considering VMaxes wont stabilize in your barrel, the Noslers at best would be marginally stable.
Very marginally.

Don't think it's the 1 gr. difference that makes the 39 BK shoot well and the 40 V-Max shoot poorly. Length of bullet and the weight distribution are different. Still would like to hear from .204 owners who have had experience with a 40 BT in a factory 12 twist. Guess I'll have to buy a box and see.

 

[Tommie]

Don't think it's the 1 gr. difference that makes the 39 BK shoot well and the 40 V-Max shoot poorly.

Not disagreeing with you.

A true 1-12” twist will stabilize the VMax. Production tolerances being what they are, some factory 12” barrels have been measured as slow at 1-12.7”. So what I’m saying is your particular barrel is likely slower than 1-12 and switching to Noslers is unlikely to produce great results. Sierra recognized the inconsistent barrel twist issue and designed the 39 BK.

 

[varmit_hunter]

I have some but never tried them. I started out with BK 39gr . Went to Berger 35gr bullets. Been shooting since. I have some Berger 40gr bullets too. I made try them see how they group. My 204 ruger is a 1@10 twist barrel. If I wasn't shooting Berger bullets. I would go back to BK 39gr bullets.

 

[SecretCode]

Bought a box and tried them for sh#t's and giggles a while back. Factory Federal Premium loaded with Nosler 40 grain Ballistic Tip. Wow My Savage VLP Did Not Like them. Minute of Basketball. Local Fleet Farm has the in house Nolser loaded offering and they've been sitting for some time now(like a year and a half). Didn't even bother trying them and at 40 bucks for 20. Ouch.

 

[Kiwishooter]

Wasn't the 20 cal barrel twist something like 1-13"
What bullet stabilised in them?

 

[varget204]

Wasn't the 20 cal barrel twist something like 1-13"
What bullet stabilised in them?

The Savages are 1-12 " Twist, had 2,both shot bugholes with 40 V-Max

 

[RegionRat]

FWIW
Not to go down the list of other ways to look at twist for the time being, and just running the AB code, I will run the Sg numbers for the 40 VMax at sea level and a DA of 4000 feet so you can see the effect of the altitude.

I'll use a conservative speed of 3600 fps to make it more difficult, but speed is a weak effect compared to Density Altitude, so running faster wouldn't make as big of a difference as altitude.

40 VMax at sea level
Twist Sg
14, 0.6
12, 0.82
11, 0.98
10, 1.18
9, 1.46

40 VMax as above but at DA of 4000
Twist Sg
14, 0.68
12, 0.92
11, 1.10
10, 1.33
9, 1.64

I shoot way more 40s and 39s than I do 32s. I have had twists from 12 on up and have shot as low as sea level, but I am usually at 2650 ASL as a low and generally hunt well above that altitude in other states.

For my own comments, I never understood why the factory bbls came in 12 twists. My first WOA varmint upper was a 10 twist and those have all been awesome. When I started with a factory Rem Sendero style bolt gun, the 12 twist was marginal at 2650 ASL, and not good in wind at all on some days. It can shoot bugholes inside 200 yards, but go any farther and give it any cross wind or one of those days when the DA goes the wrong way, and it falls apart. In my view, it is really only good for 32 grain bullets. I then understood why John made his uppers in 10 twist and the math supports what my eyes were telling me... that a 12 twist "might work" with 40VMax but it might not depending on the cross wind and the DA

I still have that Rem 700 with the original factory 12 twist bbl. I used the rig a little on a few trips but to be honest it is a beautiful rig to run but it just doesn't cut it past 300 yards in wind, where everything else I run shoots great no matter the weather or altitude.

I know some folks who love the 12 twist and defend their view with their own targets and experiences, but I am just sharing what my own work was telling me. YMMV

 

[SBS]

I know the 40 V-Max doesn't shoot well in my factory Ruger 12T. When you get the time, could you run the numbers on the Nosler 40 BT and the 39 BK? The 39 BK shoots well for me, but now curious about stability at a distance in the wind.

 

[RegionRat]

The 39 SBK shoots better in mine as well.

39 SBK at sea level
Twist Sg
14, 0.64
12, 0.87
11, 1.04
10, 1.26
9, 1.56

So the 39 Sierra stability is marginally better than the 40 VMax because of the length.
The 40 VMax is about 0.752" long with a tip length of 0.140
The 39 SBK is about 0.732 long with a tip length of 0.150
For some barrels, it makes just enough difference. YMMV

 

[SBS]

Looks like the rifle manufacturers should use 10 twist barrels. Reminds me of when Sierra brought out the 6mm 107 MK. Required an 8 twist and there weren't any rifles on the market with a twist faster than 9. Was a long time before any factory rifles were available to use heavy 6mm bullets; you had to get a custom barrel and it was a while before those were widely available. The .204 Ruger round got off to a fast start, partly due to it's ability to keep up with rounds such as .22-250. But to do that, you need to shoot the 39-40 gr. bullets. The inability of the factory barrels to do so maybe why it's currently not near as popular. The custom barrel/rifle market is much smaller than factory. Once the manufacturers have decided it's primarily a custom market, they probably won't do much about the barrel twist and we may already be there.
If you get time to run the stability numbers on the 40 Nosler BT, it would be interesting to see the difference.

 

[L.Sherm]

I dont take alot of stock in S.G numbers to a certain point, ive not shot an 11tw yet that won't shot any 20 cal bullet up to 40 gr well. If you run the #'s on the 55 with a 9 at sea level its right at 1.2. and there's alot of 9 out there shooting 55 well
Dave Tooley even says he's shot down to 1.1 with no problem.

 

[RegionRat]

Agree with 11 twist. I have one heavy bbl left in an 11 twist chambered by Greg Tannel and it shoots 40s down at sea level all the way out to where the bullets drop to subsonic. When I am out for colony rodents, I am always much higher than sea level and always in wind, and that bbl shoots bugholes.

My wildcat runs the 55 grain Berger in a 9 twist all the way out past 1000 yards just fine. Down near sea level with a day at 75F and 50% RH my Sg is down near 1.18 and if I get cross winds the groups open up much more at that DA than they do at say 6000 ASL. I just don't use that rig near sea level except to test near home. The fact those bullets fly as well as they do is a testament to Berger.

Sg numbers are always just a guide, not a hard law. Lots of us shoot with an Sg lower than 1.4 and get away with it to various levels.

And like I said earlier, even my 12 twist will shoot the 40s out to 200 in no wind. Then what happens is when you get any significant drop in DA or cross wind or try to go out further it falls apart fast.

A person can always try a 40 VMax in a 12 twist and they may get away with it, or they may not. Just depends on their altitude and their luck. However, if they just run an 11 or 10 twist, I have yet to meet anyone who says their rig doesn't work. YMMV