A shocking lack of safe gun handling practices

[quest450]

How do you 1000% ensure there are no bolts in the rifles?

The match director or/and RSO counts all bolts after "show me your bolts" command given and all shooters remain seated at the benches with bolts high in the air.

 

[Evan]

My opinion: I am responsible for my safety at all times. If I feel unsafe, I leave. That goes for life, not just the gun range. Trying to change other people’s behavior is not productive or effective in most cases.

Every BR and Fclass match Ive been to has felt safe to me. But I’m not dogmatic about protocol. If the bolt is out, the rifle can’t fire. The bolt is always out until the rifle is pointed at a target.

 

[White Eagle]

Bolts in? Or out?

would that make a difference?
the whole idea is muzzle safety and handling safety in general
someone points a gun at you are you going to ask bolt's in or is it out?

 

[6MMsteve]

I haven't shot for a long time in comp But at Orig Penn 1000 bolts had to be out, or you were ask to leave... I just purchased a 6 pack of ECI's in case I decide to go shoot somewhere this summer..knowing me I will forget to bring my rifle or ammo or forget where i'm going

 

[mtncwru]

would that make a difference?
the whole idea is muzzle safety and handling safety in general
someone points a gun at you are you going to ask bolt's in or is it out?

Exactly. If someone is waiving their muzzle around I'm not waiting to find out where their bolt is. Muzzle in a safe direction is first, last, and always, even before the other rules of safe handling for me, since it's one that's much more instantly verifiable from a distance. It's also the one that saves you when you miss the "unloaded" part.

 

[Kevin57]

would that make a difference?
the whole idea is muzzle safety and handling safety in general
someone points a gun at you are you going to ask bolt's in or is it out?

You don't know if a bolt is out of a rifle whether that makes a difference????????

Nobody should be pointing a gun at you for any reason. But, is this really happening? I have been to a lot of matches. I don't see that happening. But I have seen some real hysterics at perceived breaches of muzzle discipline. I saw a person go nuts when he thought an over and under shotgun that was being carried broken open crossed his shadow...He was asked to leave. Bravo.

 

[drop_point]

The whole “bolt out” thing can create dangerous situations. A round could be left in the chamber and the bolt removed. But a chamber flag ensures no round is in the chamber.

Rules of safety should be followed at all times.

Also, somebody mentioned concealed weapons. Those are not “pointed at you” as they are holstered and nobody handling them. Pointing is a controlled and deliberate act. Guns are dangerous and there is inherit risk in carrying one or being around folks who are carrying them. Look at all the Sig P320 issues lately.

 

[KMW 1954]

How do you 1000% ensure there are no bolts in the rifles?

At the range I work we do not remove bolts. One because we have many Semi-auto's on the line. Though we do at Cease Fire instruct to Open actions, Unload, Remove magazines, Insert chamber flag. Step back away from benches and wait for inspection. The Range Officer then does a walk through inspection to ensure all firearms are in a safe condition. No one is allowed down range until the inspection has been completed.

This is a large range with 22 benches at 25yds, 44 benches at 100yds and 12 benches at 200/300yds. It just amazes me at the number of times I am asked, "what's a chamber flag!"

 

[gcabrera]

Guys let's agree that we are chasing our tails here, as there is no solution that will satisfy each and everyone.
There is no difference between a gun in a case (bolt out and/or flagged) being whipped around and a gun being carried on the shoulder (bolt out and/or flagged).
Bolts out is good enough for me to enjoy the sport I love. Let's not destroy the sport by trying -with all the good intentions- to make it perfect.

 

[Doug Casner]

When I was little my dad and his friend were in a coffee shop a highway patrolman walked in. Dads friend asked the patrolman if he always carried his sw cocked in the holster. Looked down it was. A double action smith is pretty light. Lucky nobody around the table got shot. Doug

 

[KMW 1954]

Exactly. If someone is waiving their muzzle around I'm not waiting to find out where their bolt is. Muzzle in a safe direction is first, last, and always, even before the other rules of safe handling for me, since it's one that's much more instantly verifiable from a distance. It's also the one that saves you when you miss the "unloaded" part.

While working at the largest outdoor range in Wisconsin for the past 4+ years I cannot count the number of times I have had a muzzle pointed at me. Or a muzzle pointed down the firing line. Then the number of times I am told, "it's not loaded!". That's when I tell them to walk to the next bench and explain that to the person they just swept. At the same time I express to that tat I would react the same way if the other guy pointed his rifle at you.

Also the few times when I have alerted someone, muzzle down range and then asked them to open the action and a live round pops out.

 

[KMW 1954]

Bolts out is good enough for me to enjoy the sport I love. Let's not destroy the sport by trying -with all the good intentions- to make it perfect.

That's all well and good until some one gets "accidentally" shot. I don't want to be that One. I work at a large outdoor range 2 to 3 days per week so my Odds are much greater than most of that happening.

 

[mtncwru]

Guys let's agree that we are chasing our tails here, as there is no solution that will satisfy each and everyone.
There is no difference between a gun in a case (bolt out and/or flagged) being whipped around and a gun being carried on the shoulder (bolt out and/or flagged).
Bolts out is good enough for me to enjoy the sport I love. Let's not destroy the sport by trying -with all the good intentions- to make it perfect.

Nope, disagree that there's no difference between cased vs. carried over the shoulder, no matter the condition. Just "bolts out then YOLO" is far from "good enough" when the cost of failure is death or life altering injury.

 

[jelenko]

Guys let's agree that we are chasing our tails here, as there is no solution that will satisfy each and everyone.
There is no difference between a gun in a case (bolt out and/or flagged) being whipped around and a gun being carried on the shoulder (bolt out and/or flagged).
Bolts out is good enough for me to enjoy the sport I love. Let's not destroy the sport by trying -with all the good intentions- to make it perfect.

I disagree
A gun in a case is different than one that is being handled
Muzzle discipline!

 

[Kracken McGraw]

A few years ago I was at our LR High Power/F state championship. My good shooting buddy who is in very bad health and was sitting in a lawn chair just behind the covered line while I was talking with him. A local club member came walking by carrying his rifle almost level and stopped to talk to one of his friends with the muzzle of his rifle pointed directly at my friends head about six inches away! I loudly said "watch your muzzle!". He looked at me and ignored me. I again said the same thing even louder and he ignored me again still with muzzle pointed directly at my friends head 6" away. The third time I yelled " WATCH YOUR FKN MUZZLE !" He STILL ignored me again but his friends seeing I was getting really pissed off, grabbed him by his arm and moved him away. Each time he looked directly at me a then ignored me with a FU look. He then gave me hard looks for the for the rest of the weekend.. WTF is wrong with people! I should have filed a complaint with the MD but not being at my club you feel pressure leave the good ol boys alone.

That’s terrible that he thought he could do no wrong in his mind.

 

[dryhumor]

I’ve been swept with loaded and unloaded weapons for over 50 years now. I don’t F IN like it at all. When adults want to act like ignorant children they get treated like ignorant children. I’ve only fortunately had one individual next to me with a negligent discharge. Evidently, working on an AR15 trigger was not his forte…

When I let someone shoot my rifles I make sure the the chamber is clear before I let them behind the rifle. If the particular trigger is a light one, I make sure they know it.

 

[jelenko]

should have filed a complaint with the MD

Absolutely!!

Especially this guy. He was playing an ego trip with someone else's life.

 

[jelenko]

There is no 1000% sure in anything! Disqualify and have a suspension for flagrant safety rules violations.
Sheesh, ranges have more risk than sitting in front of the TV. You have to accept some reasonable level of risk. You can have so many rules and Ex marines barking that it's no fun. That's why I don't shoot long range where I have to work in the pits. At 67, I don't need to be barked at or listen to some self important asshat barking at everyone else.

Really guys if you want to fine print the rules looking for some technical violation, just become a prison guard and get it over with.

Place bolts in rifles and commence firing!

Kevin

We should not accept any risk that is controllable when the risk occurrence could result in the lost of someone's life.

 

[Blaster 1]

We should not accept any risk that is controllable when the risk occurrence could result in the lost of someone's life.

About 2years ago was shooting at local range there was 4 guys shooting 100yds one guy asked to get hes target so we stopped he walk down to target and a guy shot when he was at he's target. Older gentleman took he's gun away and destroyed it.we told him to never return.

 

[mtncwru]

When I let someone shoot my rifles I make sure the the chamber is clear before I let them behind the rifle. If the particular trigger is a light one, I make sure they know it.

Same! It's like getting into an unfamiliar car: take a minute to get comfortable and learn where the controls are before you turn on the engine.

"This is probably a bit different from the rifles you're used to. Go ahead and dry fire a couple times before you load a round for real."
--My usual script when someone wants to try my weird looking Palma rifle. Gives me the chance to watch how they do with trigger and muzzle discipline, too.