A shocking lack of safe gun handling practices

[topclass2017]

My state game commission range. I seen.......
1. Shot fired while person changing target at 100 yards.

2. Person walks to 25 yard target, without calling a ceasefire. 3 other people shooting at 50 yards. Same firing line/range.

3. Guy shooting on my target. Told him to "stop". Again shoots on my target, no accident. Just the 2 of us on the firing line. Him 22lr, me 223. What would you do?

re #3. I would pack up and leave. In my opinion, he doesn't give a rat's patoot about common decency or respect, so a confrontation does not seem like an endeavor with a positive outcome, especially with just the two of you around (no witnesses...) In the grand scheme of things an abandoned target is of minimal value compared to one's safety and good health. And now knowing what he drives, I would avoid range time if I saw he was there in the future, unless there were other people that might temper his behavior.

 

[William Vogel]

Bolts in? Or out?

I agree with bolts out but remember that from 20 feet away I’m not looking for a bolt, I’m getting away from a muzzle. I agree with keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.

 

[jelenko]

be pointed back at the spectators

Right. They don't pull targets, so who cares?

 

[jelenko]

20 feet away I’m not looking for a bolt

Exactly.

 

[JFrank]

Yesterday morning while in town we had several cops screaming through at high speeds with the sirens blasting and Ambulance right behind.
I wasn’t sure WTH was going on until this evenings news report of a 3 year old boy shot and killed and the Father is held on negligent charges.
This is the worst possible thing to even imagine.
Very sad

 

[jackieschmidt]

As a member of The Tomball Gun Club, we have written rules in our binders that cover every safety issue.

When matches are held, the safety protocols of the Sanctioning Body are in play.

The one I am involved with is Short Range Benchrest, where there is a strict rule on no bolts in rifles unless you are at the firing line under the command of insert bolts, commence fire.
You will see shooters walking around with rifles pointed in any random direction, in cleaning cradles, or just lying on a table.….with the bolt out. ALWAYS with the bolt out.
To my knowledge, through the many decades of Sanctioning Matches, there has never been a shooting accident at a Sanctioned Benchrest Match.

By the way. a bolt action rifle with the bolt removed is no more dangerous than a piece of water pipe.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Often we see guns "pointed "around at matches. There's those busy times when shooters are setting up on the mound- others coming off hauling guns, mats, iPads etc. Our mounds are usually small and shooters are changing over while shooting is happening - but rifles are checked/cleared by the RO or the scorer -bolts are out and mostly flags are in.
But don't try to put a bolt in off the mound - you will get some comments that you may not have expected.

 

[hoz53]

On Memorial Day, we attended a service at a small rural cemetery where my wife's father is buried (WW2 Purple Heart recipient for injuries at the Battle Of The Bulge). The VFW Honor Guard did a very good job but how they handled the M1's was more than a bit scary. One member put the butt on the ground, grabbed the muzzle and with it pointed right at his face...tried to cycle it with his right foot.

The service over, all 10 M1's...not unloaded...got piled into a lump in the back of a pickup and off they went to the next cemetery.

I asked about how they handled loading the guns. They loaded them full in the morning, shot two at each service and had four services.

the honor guard for my dad--16 of them--- opened the back of a pickup and grabbed a garand off the pile. then piled them back in after it was over just like u said. since there blanks i guess no one would get hurt to far.
one did police the brass and give them to us in a little bag.

 

[acbrunton55]

Just an ECI/chamber flag doesn't guarantee a safe rifle.

Visual inspection by a fellow competitor with the bolt removed and ECI inserted is the safest option. Should be a standing rule IMO.

^^^^^ This^^^^^^^
And, don't transport it unless that muzzle is in the air. Even with the ECI in. Or, case and uncase at the line with the muzzle down range.

 

[mtncwru]

^^^^^ This^^^^^^^
And, don't transport it unless that muzzle is in the air. Even with the ECI in. Or, case and uncase at the line with the muzzle down range.

Yup. Defense in depth is The Way -- all about minimizing the holes in the Swiss cheese...

 

[quest450]

Bolts removed during "cold range"............at 600 and 1000 yd Freedom and IBS Sanctioned matches and Nationals it is perfectly okay to set up your rifle on the bench and look thru the scope to line up on your target while target crew is downrange, imagine how long it would take at 1K Nats with 8+ relays if you had to wait for the target crew to finish hanging targets and get back.

 

[Krogen]

Yup. Defense in depth is The Way -- all about minimizing the holes in the Swiss cheese...

Holes will exist no matter what, so the key is layers of safety. This is the Swiss Cheese theory. If one layer of protection fails, you have others to stop the problem. This is why at our club we have multiple rules. Some people do get aggravated at "all the rules." To that I say, "Sucks to be you." To execute a ceasefire 1) chamber flags are inserted in unloaded guns 2) guns are inspected 3) ceasefires are initiated with a brief honk of the buzzer and the red blinkers go on 3) no handling of guns during ceasefires 5) people stay out of the no man's land in proximity to the shooting positions. To go hot, check downrange, honk the buzzer, announce range is going hot and turn off the blinkers. Overkill? Maybe. But people are people and mistakes happen. It's not usually total disregard for safety.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model

I'll tell a story on myself. Short version: I messed up. At the end of a ceasefire, I didn't see a fellow shooter >behind< the target board. I announced "range is going hot" honked the buzzer and began to turn off the red blinkers. He popped out from behind the target, waved his arms and yelled. The multiple layers of safety prevented a problem from human error. He was cool with the situation and just said, "that's what the procedures are for." I'm still embarrassed by my mess up, as I should be.

 

[Kevin57]

My state game commission range. I seen.......
1. Shot fired while person changing target at 100 yards.

2. Person walks to 25 yard target, without calling a ceasefire. 3 other people shooting at 50 yards. Same firing line/range.

3. Guy shooting on my target. Told him to "stop". Again shoots on my target, no accident. Just the 2 of us on the firing line. Him 22lr, me 223. What would you do?

A. My gun club......
1. Flintlock fired 15 feet to my left. Chip from flint hit 1/2" below my left eye. Draws blood. Should have had my blinders on my shooting glasses.
View attachment 1664636

2. Guy with muzzle loader seating bullet by bumping ram rod against a pole. Muzzle pointed right at me. Called him on it. He pointed it in a different direction, towards another guy shooting archery. I turned around, went home.

You can't fix idiots who will not learn.

But, things happen, we all have to be vigilant and help with safety without being an over the top busybody.
I have stopped going to a local 600 yd range because all of the idiots that couldn't hit a cow at a 100 running their mouths. The gillied up asshats pretending they are SEAL snipers.

Bolt out chamber flag in, setting my rifle on the bench...you would have thought I had just shot the President.

Be safe, enforce safe rules but for heaven's sake use some common sense.

Kevin

 

[ELR LVR]

Bolts in? Or out?

Every 10 min break I would hear
"Actions open and Empty, Guns pointed Donwnrannnnnnnge",

 

[mtncwru]

Holes will exist no matter what, so the key is layers of safety. This is the Swiss Cheese theory. If one layer of protection fails, you have others to stop the problem.

Yes, I'm familiar with the concept. Hence the "defense in depth" statement.

 

[Tangent]

A good practice is to go on YouTube occasionally and watch some of the videos showing the amount of energy/destruction various cartridges can put out. It's a good reminder not to be on the wrong end of one!

 

[swd]

A few years ago I was at our LR High Power/F state championship. My good shooting buddy who is in very bad health and was sitting in a lawn chair just behind the covered line while I was talking with him. A local club member came walking by carrying his rifle almost level and stopped to talk to one of his friends with the muzzle of his rifle pointed directly at my friends head about six inches away! I loudly said "watch your muzzle!". He looked at me and ignored me. I again said the same thing even louder and he ignored me again still with muzzle pointed directly at my friends head 6" away. The third time I yelled " WATCH YOUR FKN MUZZLE !" He STILL ignored me again but his friends seeing I was getting really pissed off, grabbed him by his arm and moved him away. Each time he looked directly at me a then ignored me with a FU look. He then gave me hard looks for the for the rest of the weekend.. WTF is wrong with people! I should have filed a complaint with the MD but not being at my club you feel pressure leave the good ol boys alone.

 

[Doug Casner]

Anybody that thinks they wont have one go off when their not ready or not quite ready is living a dream. Always have control of that muzzle. I went from a k 22 to a woodsman when I was a kid. You didnt have to cock the woodsman every shot. It went off on me a couple of times. Luckily it was pointed in a safe direction. Thats the main rule . Watch that barrel. Doug

 

[jelenko]

Bolts removed during "cold range"............at 600 and 1000 yd Freedom and IBS Sanctioned matches and Nationals it is perfectly okay to set up your rifle on the bench and look thru the scope to line up on your target while target crew is downrange, imagine how long it would take at 1K Nats with 8+ relays if you had to wait for the target crew to finish hanging targets and get back.

How do you 1000% ensure there are no bolts in the rifles?

 

[Kevin57]

There is no 1000% sure in anything! Disqualify and have a suspension for flagrant safety rules violations.
Sheesh, ranges have more risk than sitting in front of the TV. You have to accept some reasonable level of risk. You can have so many rules and Ex marines barking that it's no fun. That's why I don't shoot long range where I have to work in the pits. At 67, I don't need to be barked at or listen to some self important asshat barking at everyone else.

Really guys if you want to fine print the rules looking for some technical violation, just become a prison guard and get it over with.

Place bolts in rifles and commence firing!

Kevin