Derraco competition shell holder set, Infos/advices.
- Thread starter Bora72
- Start date
PMA Reloading Tools has them. About $18.
Same sizes as Sinclair. Plus, side - they are stainless steel - good.
Minus side - they are not marked - not good.
The Sinclair shims (Skip Shims) are notched for easy identification of their size. So, I would contact Brownell's and see if they can order the Skip Shims for you.
However, The PMA shims server the same purpose. So, if you don't mind a little extra effort to mark them, you could mark them with a Sharpie after measuring them with a micrometer. Not ideal but I still feel it's worth the effort. Read the reviews on PMA and you will see, except for the unmarked nature, they have 5-star rating.
One of my mentors, Frank Shuster (RIP), a member of this forum used them with considerable success. The really nice feature is that you can use them with any 7/8" die for any caliber. I found using them makes precise F/L die adjustments very easy to change the bump.
marine52
Silver $$ Contributor
The Derraco and Redding style competition shellholders are completely different from Skips Shims. The Competition Shellholders are designed to provide a hard solid contact between shellholder and die while letting you change the shoulder bump.
Skips shims are excellent for their intended purpose. They allow you to change the shoulder bump w/o moving the lock ring on the die and they allow you to do this in a very precise way. In fact, Tony Boyer—winner of 12 World BR championships—describes, in his book, how to use them starting at .015” of shims and working in the direction of bump increase. But you still have to screw the die down to the exact same position to achieve the same bump as if you did not have the shims. The use of Skips Shims does not guarantee a hard solid contact between shellholder and die.
Skips shims are excellent for their intended purpose. They allow you to change the shoulder bump w/o moving the lock ring on the die and they allow you to do this in a very precise way. In fact, Tony Boyer—winner of 12 World BR championships—describes, in his book, how to use them starting at .015” of shims and working in the direction of bump increase. But you still have to screw the die down to the exact same position to achieve the same bump as if you did not have the shims. The use of Skips Shims does not guarantee a hard solid contact between shellholder and die.
Right for non hard solid contact from shell holder to die, but how the die can screws a the same position of the shim make a sort of think between the lock ring and the upper of the press screw?
marine52
Silver $$ Contributor
With the shims, you still have to screw the die up and down to obtain the bump you want. For example, after sizing a case, you decide you want 0.001” more bump. You then unscrew the die and remove it and then remove one shim that is 0.001” in width. You then put the die back in and screw it all the way down. The end result is that you have screwed the die down an additional 0.001” from its prior position.
Ok I understod the principle, but if you put One shim more think or more thin the lock ring can't retain the previous position
I was on a pistol team with Frank in the late 70's to mid 80's at the Dormont - Mt. Lebanon Gun Club in Western PA. He was always eager to help fellow shooters, and he was a shooter that embodied precision shooting whether be a rifle or pistol.
There are various ways to set up the F/L die to use shims for changing the amount of sizing without having to change the lock ring. My set included instructions. Also, the Sinclair Catalog contained similar instructions.
However, after experimenting with various approaches, I selected a different method. My initial set up is with die making firm contact (not cam over) with the shell holder with the .010" shim under the lock ring. This provides my baseline position for the F/l die. Thus, by replacing that shim (.010) with one of the smaller ones, (.003 to .008) I can increase the amount of sizing. In some cases, because of the amount of play in my press, the .010 shim produces zero bump with no case extrusion.
In some other cases / rifle chamber, a .008" shim give me zero bump. With others still, it might take a smaller shim. I try to keep my cases sized from 0 to .001" bump. This works for my press and bolt rifles. Of course, one should always spot check in the rifle chamber to verify optimum sizing.
I have been doing this a long time and it works for me. It's simple, effective, and inexpensive since a set of shims can be used with any F/L die.
This is also true, but that's another story.
I used to use a set of good old fashioned feeler gauges to achieve the same . Simply measure the gap between die and shellholder .
Normal mechanics feeler gauges measure from 0.0015" and cost about £5 / $6 . I jest like the hard contact offered by competition shellholders.
That's true as far as it goes. For that matter, one can just follow the instructions that comes with each F/L die set and screw the die down 1/8 to 1/4 turn and the case will fit the chamber. But this does not produce optimum sizing. Also true, most measurement method and calipers are only accurate to .001". But with that said, often, F/L die adjustments are needed to maintain optimum sizing. If you are loading for multiple rifles of the same cartridge, die adjustment often require different settings even with cases dedicated to a specific rifle.
Thus, in by gone days and even today some use the trial-and-error method of adjusting the F/L die in small increments until optimum case fit is obtained. With the advent of bump gauges this makes the process easier and more precise since you now have a measurement and do not have strip the bolt and test every time your size cases to check die setting for optimum sizing.
The Redding Competition Shell holders evolved to make die adjustments easier. Shims are just another way to do the same thing albeit cheaper. The die shims fit completely under and around the entire circumference of the lock ring providing a more uniform and stable platform than feeler gauges, especially under sizing pressure.
Also true, reading the wind and I'll add mirage plus shooter's skills are most significant variables in precision shooting in my experience assuming you have capable equipment and loads. The does not cancel out the need to make F/L die adjustments.
I did the same, ordered me a set today also.
Just got my derraco set for magnum case rims today.300 win mag they call there's.
Wow they are extremely nice and look very well made.havent measured them or used them but impressed so far and like that they come with standard shell holder also ....
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