Learning to shoot with wind flags

[Todd Earhart]

The best advice I have for someone is, get flags and start using them. You have to change your mindset. If your at the range shooting without flags, your wasting your time and ammunition. Quit thinking you had a mechanical or ammunition related flier. Its more likely a condition that caused it to miss intended mark. Make it a personal challenge to yourself to figure why that shot went off. Flags are comparator's. You compare their position to where the bullet impacts with sighters. We have unlimited sighters so compare.
One more thing I tell new shooters. Always use your timer. We have unlimited sighters but not unlimited time.
Todd

 

[VLNBYR]

In a 20 minute ARA Unlimited match a bunch of the shooters will be done in 10 minutes and most everyone in 15 minutes. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

 

[searcher]

Not an expert, are you saying none of the best shooters hold off on a shot? I would think that sometimes you don't have a choice. You ideal condition may never happen again in the time alloted for your target time. Many times I hear guys say the condition changed so they shoot at the sight bull to see where i goes.

Once at the Super Shoot I stood behind Tony Boyer and watched the flags and when he shot. Not sure what I got out of it but Tony had to be the best at wind reading. Buy his book.

Good advice. Tony has lots of pictures of flags in different wind conditions, showing projected impact shifts. Very good info I have not seen elsewhere.

 

[Eric Leonard]

I suck at trying to figure out how much a change on my flags will make on target, if I see anything change I shoot a sighter, no matter how small a change it is. Shooting UBR score I’ll probably avg shooting 150 rounds
I’ve been burnt too many times when 1 flag will just flutter a little different and think , that won’t matter and miss a dot. It’s one thing to miss a letup or switch but if I see it I’m shooting a sighter

 

[10XSHOOTER]

I hate holding till the conditions come back especially if the rifle is hot, seems like the round changes while sitting in a hot chamber too long and can create a flyer. This situation of waiting on conditions can let you run out of time as well.

Holding to long lets the wax get hard in the barrel. You'll have to shoot a couple sighters to warm it back up.
and by then the conditions may have changed on you again.

 

[BowChamp]

Holding to long lets the wax get hard in the barrel. You'll have to shoot a couple sighters to warm it back up.
and by then the conditions may have changed on you again.

It's good to know how your rifle is holding during a match, especially if conditions are switchy. I've had my rifle hold as long as ten minutes while shooting a match.

 

[Mg73]

Here’s a thought to drive you even crazier. Every gun/ammo combination has a built in variance. Lock a gun in a vice in a windless tunnel like the test ranges and even the most accurate gun will never put every shot in the same exact hole. There is always a built in variance between shots. And it’s random, you pay more for less variance but there is always variance. So, during the match you make what you think is the perfect wind read and hold off, you use perfect technique and the shot still goes where you don’t expect it. Did the wind change? Did you read it wrong? Did you make a technique error? Was there a defect in the ammo? Was it the built in variance in my gun/ammo combo? Was it a combination of the above? The maddening thing is how can you know? Answer is you usually can’t unless a pattern develops. So just move on, trust your training and keep practicing.

 

[grauhanen]

If a perfect rifle/barrel in a perfect vise set-up in a perfect tunnel was possible (it isn't), how many average lots of match ammo would see all rounds going into the same POI (i.e. have the same trajectories)?

With average lots, the answer would be none. The only questions are how many rounds/box wouldn't have the same POI and by how much would they differ? The better the lot, the greater the number of rounds that might have very similar trajectories.

The point is that even with the best use of wind flags, or in windless tunnels, the average lot of match ammo-- which is what most shooters use -- is never likely to have all rounds with equally predictable trajectories.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

The point is that even with the best use of wind flags, or in windless tunnels, the average lot of match ammo-- which is what most shooters use -- is never likely to have all rounds with equally predictable trajectories.

This here shows how much lack of understanding you have about wind flags and competitive shooting.
Even with so call average lots, a shooter wouldn't be shooting any lot if they did not have some confidence on predictable results with the lot they used. factor in wind and it now becomes even more important, why because now shooter ability to read the conditions overrides everything else. wind becomes the equalizer!

You seem to have a thing about how ammo is never the same from lot to lot or even box to box. those who compete or just have a lot of experience shooting know this already and found how to deal with it. they choose what shoots best for them, you should try it may solve this overly obsession of coming on the forums and telling everyone how unpredictable .22LR ammo is you be surprised how many already knows this!

Lee

 

[JFrank]

View attachment 1622139

I don’t find this to be accurate , a 2:00 wind won’t push down and left, ( on a right hand twist barrel )
Maybe I’m not reading it correctly or it’s for a left hand twist .

 

[grauhanen]

This here shows how much lack of understanding you have about wind flags and competitive shooting.
Even with so call average lots, a shooter wouldn't be shooting any lot if they did not have some confidence on predictable results with the lot they used. factor in wind and it now becomes even more important, why because now shooter ability to read the conditions overrides everything else.

Match ammo lots aren't perfect simply because they are "match ammo". Wind aside, not all lots of .22LR match ammo will populated with rounds that have equal trajectories, with equally predictable POIs.

If some lots may be nearer to being perfect, the average lot isn't. Shooters often shoot these average lots, not because they are great, but because these are the ones most commonly available. Wind aside, the much often harder-to-find truly great lots will perform much more uniformly and as expected.

As an aside, you shouldn't take on the lone responsibility of policing what I say. Leave something for others who may feel it's needed.

 

[TRSR8]

If a perfect rifle/barrel in a perfect vise set-up in a perfect tunnel was possible (it isn't), how many average lots of match ammo would see all rounds going into the same POI (i.e. have the same trajectories)?

With average lots, the answer would be none. The only questions are how many rounds/box wouldn't have the same POI and by how much would they differ? The better the lot, the greater the number of rounds that might have very similar trajectories.

The point is that even with the best use of wind flags, or in windless tunnels, the average lot of match ammo-- which is what most shooters use -- is never likely to have all rounds with equally predictable trajectories.

While that might very well be technically true, in real world match conditions, wind, as shown with flag setups will dictate.
Vast majority of shooters lose a shot due to missed condition the majority of the time and many fail to recognize that simple truth.

 

[1911nut]

I don’t find this to be accurate , a 2:00 wind won’t push down and left, ( on a right hand twist barrel )
Maybe I’m not reading it correctly or it’s for a left hand twist .

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Match ammo lots aren't perfect simply because they are "match ammo". Wind aside, not all lots of .22LR match ammo will populated with rounds that have equal trajectories, with equally predictable POIs.

If some lots may be nearer to being perfect, the average lot isn't. Shooters often shoot these average lots, not because they are great, but because these are the ones most commonly available. Wind aside, the much often harder-to-find truly great lots will perform much more uniformly and as expected.

As an aside, you shouldn't take on the lone responsibility of policing what I say. Leave something for others who may feel it's needed.

As I suspected you have no clue on shooting in the wind, regardless of the ammo not being perfect as you say. and again, no competitive shooter with experience will come to the line with lots that are suspect.

Lee

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

While that might very well be technically true, in real world match conditions, wind, as shown with flag setups will dictate.
Vast majority of shooters lose a shot due to missed condition the majority of the time and many fail to recognize that simple truth.

Amen brother!

Lee

 

[Gabe22BR]

Best to shoot in the wind- learn to speak it, read it, hold it-

I have yet to see a perfect match- no matter the discipline

 

[HuskerP7M8]

I don’t find this to be accurate , a 2:00 wind won’t push down and left, ( on a right hand twist barrel )
Maybe I’m not reading it correctly or it’s for a left hand twist .

The chart is correct, but that’s because AG pellets are fin-stabilized like a missile versus the ballistic mechanisms that govern the vertical drift in the wind for standard CF and RF projectile shape.

Landy

 

[grauhanen]

While that might very well be technically true, in real world match conditions, wind, as shown with flag setups will dictate.
Vast majority of shooters lose a shot due to missed condition the majority of the time and many fail to recognize that simple truth.

When wind is not involved -- which is the situation to which I referred -- it remains true, technically or otherwise. When wind is involved the trajectory is subject to it's influence and of course flags will dictate. No one should think differently.

As I suspected you have no clue on shooting in the wind, regardless of the ammo not being perfect as you say. and again, no competitive shooter with experience will come to the line with lots that are suspect.

Lee

Most lots are not above average. On average, the average competitive shooter shoots average lots. While some average shooters have above average lots most can't get them. When lots are imperfect, trajectories can become more unpredictable with the addition of wind.

Since you feel compelled to follow and try to correct what I say (for this reason I don't miss you on RFC, but it's clear you still read there) I won't be revisiting this thread.

 

[TRSR8]

When wind is not involved -- which is the situation to which I referred -- it remains true, technically or otherwise. When wind is involved the trajectory is subject to it's influence and of course flags will dictate. No one should think differently.


Most lots are not above average. On average, the average competitive shooter shoots average lots. While some average shooters have above average lots most can't get them. When lots are imperfect, trajectories can become more unpredictable with the addition of wind.

Since you feel compelled to follow and try to correct what I say (for this reason I don't miss you on RFC, but it's clear you still read there) I won't be revisiting this thread.

When wind is not involved???
Been shooting RFBR from the beginning….still waiting to see that happen.
Don’t think, with the thousands of cards I have shot, I ever had a single one where I held on the dot 25 times.

 

[doclu60]

As an aside, you shouldn't take on the lone responsibility of policing what I say. Leave something for others who may feel it's needed.

Okay, I'll help Lee out and take the load off him a little since you have invited others "who may feel it's needed" because it's needed alright!
I have read the content of a LOT of your posts and you have no idea about real world high level RFBR competition. Many people who have very good pedigrees in sanctioned RFBR feel the same. What exactly your experience is, is a mystery.

Scott