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Different cases will not chamber

Have Winchester and Remington cases, all fired in tje Same Sako .270 and full length resized and trimmed. With Winchester cases found bullet seating deapth on lands with colator. Set seat die to that deapth. Winchester cases will chamber, Remington cases will not. Seat deapth on both with colator measures 2.860. Why won't the Remington cases chamber?
Question 2: Remington cases are Nickel finish, Winchester are brass. Inside neck diameter on fired nickel case before resizing 0.282, Winchester. 0285. Neck thickness on both 0.016.
Are both equally good for reloading?
Toss the Ni plated cases. Never heard of Rem or Win Ni plating cases. The only thing that makes sense is a difference in case dimensions. If sizing doesn't solve the problem you would probably need a custom die based or a small base die. If a custom die didn't work your out $90. I would measure both cases diameters at 3-4 identical locations along the body and look for a difference. There has to be a measurable difference. How far can you close the bolt until you feel resistance?

Side comment:
I have a 6BR and a 6BRX. A new 6BR Lapua case easily chambers in my 6BRX for FF. A fired 6BR case will not come close to chambering in my 6BRX. I showed it to Jim and Ian Kelbly. Kelby chambered both barrels. They said it was due to chambering reamer differences. My 6BR chamber must be a little bigger in diameter than the 6BRX. Apparently the reamers are not well standardized. If a reamer gets resharpened at the factory does it get a little smaller in diameter? Maybe a stack up of +/- tolerances in manufacturing specs? Also die dimension variation when the cases are formed.
 
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That depends, if you don't have the Hornady Comparator tooling to check your shoulder length from the base of the cartridge you should probably get these bushings, that way you can measure and see what is going on there, another thing is your die might not be sizing the web area of the cases that won't chamber ,that's where I would start, IMO, nickel cases are not worth the hassle to reload, just me here, but if you want to use them buy another sizing die just for those cases, also make sure your die is not coming lose, this can happen and cause the problems your having, just a guess, if your using SAMMI spec dies you should have no problems setting your shoulder bump, I do not use FL sizing dies, I use a Redding body dies, and neck size separately, I do this to keep my runout a small as possible, YMMV
 
How can 2 different cases both FL resized and trimmed, seated in the same die with the same bullet show different seat deapth on the colator/micrometer? In the seat die, isn't the distance between the cup rim on the plunger where it meets the ogive on the bullet, and the shell holder, fixed regardless of the case? With the colator/micrometer, isn't the distance between the micrometer jaw and the colator face where it meets the bullet olive fixed regardless of the case? How can bullet seat deapth vary case to case?
Seat die is set 1/8 turn above shell holder in up position.
 
Thanks to each of you for sharing your information. Your responses highlite how much I have to learn about reloading though I have been reloading for hunting for 40 years. Now that I am looking for more precision in my loads, I have alot to learn.
When I FL resize with my 40 year old RCBS press and dies I cam over. I set the die 1/8 turn past (lower) than touching the shell holder. Is that correct?
Can I shoulder bump with regular FL resize die? How do I measure it?
Shoulder datum--where is it and how do I measure it?
Someone asked what I mean by "won't chamber the nickel cases." I mean I can't close the bolt without a hammer.
Mark611 suggested a Sheridan go no go case gauge. What is the remedy if a case is a no go?
My issues started with my quest to fine tune seat deapth. With Winchester cases I adjusted seat die so bullet just touches lands - no jam. Nickel cases with same seat die setting won't chamber.
Further testing showed that with Winchester cases about half the seated bullets measured .008 shorter than the other half, and in seating these bullets there was no resistance on the press handle as the bullet was pushed into the case. Why are these cases different?
All cases had been fired and resized an unknown number of times.
I am a hunter, not a bench rest shooter but I would like to getat least 1 moa accuracy from my rifles. I have a press, dies, a digital micrometer, and a bullet colator with caliber inserts. What oth
Any input will be appreciated.
I am hunter too with over 50+ years of experience hunting and reloading. These days I primarily hunt varmints which requires precision reloads in the 1/2 to 5/8 moa range.

If you are a hunter - there is no need to seat your bullet that close to the lands. Functionality is just as important if not more than accuracy. First, the cartridge should fit the magazine. Second, there should be enough bullet seated in the neck to provide adequate bullet tension. One bullet diameter minus the boat tail portion, if applicable, is a good rule of thumb in my experience.

One moa accuracy is certainly achievable without going into the weeds on reloading minutia. I would focus on bullet and powder selection rather than seating depth.

One the best things you can do is dedicate a group of cases to a specific rifle, rotate there use, and mark the number of times reloaded on the cartridge box. I found the starting with virgin cases yields the best results in the long term.

You can bump the shoulder with a standard F/L die. Some cam over may be necessary depending on how much play you have in your press and linkages. Read my post on measuring cases, post # 16. With a bump gauge and caliper, you get more information than with a comparator gauge. Both are useful, the latter assume you have a SAMMI (factory) spec chamber in your rifle.

However, a bump gauge measuring a fired cases (primer removed) at a datum line on the shoulder allows you to set your die F/L die to obtain the optimum sizing (case fit in the rifle chamber).

It can be tedious changing the lock ring on the F/L die to make adjustments. Two tools that make the process easy are Redding Competition Shell Holder or Skip Shims. I prefer Shim shims because they are much cheaper, and I can use them for any cartridge. However both can work.

If you are an infrequent shooter and do not concern yourself with case life, for hunting applications and some occasional sight in at the range, the .002 bump is an effective way to go after the cases have been fully fired formed to fit the rifle chamber. Functionality is a must for a hunting reload.

Trying to explain all this on the net is difficult. If you can get with an experience reloader the learning process would be more efficient. Precision varmint hunters load for precision. One of those could help you a lot. However, do not hesitate to ask questions. You can PM me and we can discuss options for more direct contact and discussion.
 
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How can 2 different cases both FL resized and trimmed, seated in the same die with the same bullet show different seat deapth on the colator/micrometer? In the seat die, isn't the distance between the cup rim on the plunger where it meets the ogive on the bullet, and the shell holder, fixed regardless of the case? With the colator/micrometer, isn't the distance between the micrometer jaw and the colator face where it meets the bullet olive fixed regardless of the case? How can bullet seat deapth vary case to case?
Seat die is set 1/8 turn above shell holder in up position.
So your assumption is the brass is sized the same, trimmed the same, and is the same but in reality there is more to that equation to consider. How hard is the brass, do you anneal the brass and are the two different cases annealed to the same hardness? How much spring back will it move when sizing the brass or seating a bullet? When sizing, does the lube allow the brass to slip in the sizing die or does the brass just stick and then bounce back when retracted from the die? This and more can cause the issues you are seeing.

Reloading is all about consistency. Having two (or more) different cases throws a monkey wrench into that plan. Essentially you have to measure both cases at each step and adjust your process to the account for the added variability multi-case usage induces.

I run mixed brass in my bulk pistol and 556 reloading performed on an S1050. There is a risk associated with that and I have some quality control checks to ensure that ammo with run in my competition guns accordingly. I have a failure rate in my process that isn't zero. I accept ~1-2% of my reloads will not pass my quality control checks. I just toss those in the practice bin and keep the good stuff for competition.

All my precision rifle reloads (including hunting) don't have mixed brass. Sure I have brass that has different headstamps but they are run in separate campaigns and processed to ensure they will perform in the intended rifle accordingly.

Get yourself Hornady bullet comparator & headspace comparator toolsets and start measuring shoulder bump when full length sizing. You will be shocked how different brass behaves when sized with the same lube and dies.

Cheers,
Toby
 
I do not anneal, never have. I am not saying that it is not beneficial, I just never wanted to add another step to the process. Also, if done improperly, it can cause more problems than it solves.
What might those problems be ?
 
What might those problems be ?
Overheating, non-uniform heating between cases, heating too far down the body of the case weaking the web to name a few. That's what the experts told me years ago when I ponder doing it using the old torch method and quench. Since I never went the route, I have no personal experience with the process. However, I imagine with these new induction annealing machines, the process has taken the human error element out of it.
 
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Pull the bullets and dump the powder in the ones that don’t chamber. Then re-FL size a couple and see if they chamber without a bullet. That knowledge is needed.
Also, Like mentioned earlier, mark a couple of them with a black sharpie the entire length of the brass and try to chamber them. Wherever the issue is will show on the brass by wearing the marker off that area.
I know you’re asking how they two brands of brass can be different, but they are and you have to find out what exactly is different. Finding out what the problem is is more important right now than why. Once you see where it different you can work to make it right, or simply move on from that brass.
 
My suggestion is some sort of quality control steps.
1. Fired brass (unsized , decapped) chambers properly, or not(why doesn't it).
2. Sized brass chambers properly, or not(you messed up sizing if it chambered before sizing).
3. Sized, primed, charged, seated bullet chambers, or not( must be a problem in seating step because all brass fit before seating).
With most factory chambers; ammo checkers will quickly, safely confirm these qc steps.
 
Nickel cases don't size the same as a plain brass case. They just don't react the same in the die. I discovered that info sizing nickeled cases for a 30-06 some years ago. They wouldn't size down as much and had to put some serious cam over pressure in the press. Get a case gauge.
 
I'd avoid nickel cases for multiple reasons unless I were out of options.

Nickle cases are 'one and done' for me.

'Oh, Crap!' Pocket gun brass for me. And that's it.
 
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Overheating, non-uniform heating between cases, heating too far down the body of the case weaking the web to name a few. That's what the experts told me years ago when I ponder doing it using the old torch method and quench. Since I never went the route, I have no personal experience with the process. However, I imagine with these new induction annealing machines, the process has taken the human error element out of it.
I guess those reasons are accurate.
I just didn't think anyone would try to anneal without doing some research first.
 
I guess those reasons are accurate.
I just didn't think anyone would try to anneal without doing some research first.
I am not knowledgable on annealing because I never did it. When I consider doing it, I consulted with some who have done it a long time successfully which I consider somewhat of an expert on the subject. I even watch one fellow perform the process with a torch and water bath. He pointed out some of the key aspect of the process and things to avoid. It seemed too complicated meaning relying too much on human judgement and experience to do it correctly, so I shied away from it.

With these new induction machines, I think it removes most if not all of the human element. So, if I was going to anneal, I would opt for one of those. But at this late stage of my shooting life, it doesn't make any sense for me to do that. Besides, I hate the idea of acquiring another piece of equipment and adding another step in the reloading process. Also, destroying a case to set the machine gives me hives.

The one aspect of reloading that I am very meticulous about is my cases. I take a lot of effort to size my case for optimum chamber fit. I get between 15 to 18 reloads per case which is a good amortizing of the cost of the cases, at least for me without any deterioration of varmint grade accuracy.
 
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One brand of brass could have a thicker neck than the other. Measure the loaded rounds neck diameters before pulling bullets and resizing.
 
You really need a Sholder Bump Guage for the 270 Rem Case, You will have to but the Shoulder Bump gauge for That Caliber's Case. (Different calibers, Different Bump gauges).
I strongly suspect that you are able to Size and Chamber the Brass cases. I suspect that the Nickle Cases are not chambering. The Nickle cases are a lot harder and will require more sizing to get the Shoulder Set Back. as others have suggested, I would pull the bullet on one of the Nickle plated cases and try chambering that case in your rifle. If it doesn't chamber you will have to pull the bullets on all of the loaded shells and resize all of the Nickle Plated cases until you have the Proper shoulder setback (usually .002 as measured with the Shoulder Bump Guage). Once you resized and have .002 shoulder setback, again Verify that you can Chamber the Case and Close the Bolt on it without any resistance. If you feel resistance closing the bolt you will need to try and bump the shoulder back a little further. Thats why you need the Shoulder Bump guage to be able to actually measure the dimensions.

Always good to know 1. What is the Fired Case Shoulder Bump Dimension. will a fired case the first time fired still chamber in the rifle without bolt resistance when closing, Check several, if any give you resistance I would full length resize with .002 shoulder Bump on the cases that would not chamber.

Good luck.

I too liked 1 MOA accuracy of my loads when I use to hunt.

Oh, If you don't have a Bullet Puller, these work well. (Or a similar impact style hammer)

 
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Unless you have a custom die ..... all 'commonly' sold manufactured dies size brass too much for most rifle chambers when the die is set up to cam over on the press.
Dies have to be made to resize brass to fit in the smallest SAAMI dimension chambers.

If the bolt will not chamber the resized brass, my guess would be a sizing problem (as in the die is not contacting the shell holder).
 
Learn to measure bullets off ogive get the Hornady headspace comparator.

So you can't precisely measure barely bumping shoulders on various brass with different numbers of firings.it doesn't work you would have to start with unfired brass in you chamber and keep those to only fire in that rifle and keep up with the numbers of firings for those cases .you have to keep all of them on the same number of firings.

So if you want to shoot brass of various manufacturers and firings you have to plan on way over sizing brass ...get a case gauge for each cartridge and just barely size say 4-5 cases little at a time untill they all fit case gauge.you can use your rifle chamber also but they will only fit that rifle...

So if you follow die instructions you can full length size all those brass from who knows gun and various brass manufactures by sizing down to standard shell holder but just know your only going to get 3-5 firings before split necks or running into case head separation but sometimes the dies actually fit your chamber well but that's different discussion ..

Just watch at what's known as .200 line in brass about 1/4" up from case rim you'll get a shiny ring around brass but in inside cause you can check.its more if a common sense check but Google paper clip trick to feel for brass stretching.normally it doesn't get worse after first firing but you need to pay attention to this area if you keep full length sizing to shell holder

You can reload ammo of various brass manufacturers and once fired in unknown rifles or your say 2-3 308 hunting rifles but be very limited in number of firings and don't expect top accuracy and honestly I would not go beyond 4 firings at most.

Honestly you can do exactly as die instructions and your reloading manuals say just like everyone did long before the Internet .great place to start ..

Honestly it's great to start where you have cause you'll find out hard way to do it correctly.

Just buy 100 new brass and measure everything and right it down.keep all brass in same number of firings.in long run it's easier and more satisfying than using junk brass fired in I can't remember what rifle.lol

I did same as you 25 yrs ago but there was no Internet just reloading manuals.

You got to realize all this precision reloading isn't even in reloading manuals ..non of it dies tell you to turn down to the shell holder you got to figure out the rest.lol
 
And if you sized all the way to shell holder and it doesn't fit you need a small base die.
Again it's just easier in long run to buy 100 new brass and measure everything and keep in same number of firings.
 

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