The brass is not sized out of the box, that's what the case gage is for, to check to see if the brass is loadable, and yes, I chamfered and deburred the case mouths on all the fired brass, the scuffing you are seeing on the neck is from running it through a SB sizing die after it was fired, and yes the marks in the brass was there before I ran them through the die after they were fired, I will check the chamber to see if there is anything in there that should not be, I do not have any head space go no go gages to check the rifles head space, I know all the brass was inspected and gaged before loading and firing, again this brass was a new lot of 500 Starline cases that I purchased and loaded,
What is causing this to my brass!!!!!
- Thread starter Mark611
- Start date
Contact Starline. They will send you some new brass.
searcher
Gold $$ Contributor
Just a thought. As I understand it, you are not sizing some of the unfired brass as long as it fits into the case gauge? If that is correct, that can be a problem as one needs to size most new brass to lengthen the brass, bringing the shoulder forward, so to speak. Otherwise, it might fit in the case gauge, but the shoulder is set back to far, thus creating an excessive headspace condition. If you have fired brass (other than this Starline) to use as a reference as to where your headspace should be, that would be helpful. Regarding those scratches on your necks, I have replaced a few bushings which, over time, started to scratch badly for whatever reason. After replacing, all was good. I don't use many non-bushing dies, though it would seem reasonable that the same could have happened to your die. If, after tumbling the brass really good and cleaning out your die, if these marks persist, you might consider replacing the die. The deeper scratches will often eventually develop into cracks.
divingin
Gold $$ Contributor
Unclear: The body marks were there after firing but before sizing? The neck scratches are from sizing?
Assuming so: Something in the chamber is causing the body marks: Either foreign debris, or you're stretching the case (pics are unclear on that.)
Neck area of the die needs to be cleaned up (most likely cause), and possibly a case lube issue.
See my note on using scotch tape. It's not definitive, but will give you an idea of where you stand, headspacewise.
Also note that a gauge is largely useless if you don't know the relationship between chamber and gauge. The gauge will tell you if accepted specs are met, but if your chamber is different than those accepted norms, you're just going through motions. Brass that has been way oversized will fall into a gauge, but will cause problems when fired. A tight chamber will fail to accept brass that fits a standard gauge.
Agreed, ok update, just to be clear, the marks on the neck are from me resizing the case, forgot to lube the neck on that case, The marks on the case bodies are not from sizing, I discovered after going through the brass in the lot of 500 I'm working with I have found a few cases with these marks on them that you see in the pix, although their very faint their there, on the unfired cases new in the box, as far as the Case gage I'm using, that is a SAMMI spec gage, I also use my Hornady Head Space comparator with a caliper to check the head space of the cases before and after firing, I have 4 to 5k of shoulder forward after firing, so I wouldn't say this rifle has a tight chamber, LOL!!! I've also cleaned and inspected the chamber on the rifle, I see nothing that would indicate a problem, at this point with all the good info from you guys I'm going to say it's the brass! Now the question is whether it still safe to reload????
I'm with Bojo ^^^^! Fire different brass, a box of full of factory loads, preferably brass!!! If you see the marks on the expended factory loaded ammo, it is the chamber as Bojo mentioned!! If the marks don't appear, you have bad factory brass!! I'm leaning towards bad brass since you stated not all the fired formed brass has these stretch regions and, the 2 regions don't exist on the same cases which you have not observed or posted!! The 1st rule of reloading is, if it looks bad, and you're in doubt, DON'T USE THEM!!
Brass is designed to pull or stretch at the 200 marks due to the head space datum differential of the case and chamber!!! Those marks are ways higher in two different regions and are not nearly as radial in stretch like the 200 mark!!! The irregular, ragged stretching of your cases looks like folding occurred in the extrusion (formation) between formation punch and die stations or the "PICK N PLACE" device for the progression of forming!! Dents and/or wrinkles can occur in the casing misalignment seating in the dies, casing ejection, punch withdrawal issues, and/or timing issues in seating, ejecting, and/or staging!! As a formal Process Engineer, I have seen such issues in progressive punch and die mechanics and had to TROUBLESHOOT them!! I believe the manufacturer had a broken ejector spring and/or lose ejector pin causing erratic hang ups of the ejector and over travel since the folds occurred in two different regions!!! The reason you don't see it on the unfired brass is the next formation processes and annealing tends to smooth out the wrinkles and dents by slightly folding the brass! When you fire form that folded brass, the brass now stretches, mostly at the weakest point, at the folds, and not completely at the 200 mark!!
If this is a factory flaw issue, which I suspect, the next firing of that brass could cause ruptures since those regions in question are now really thin!!! IMO, I would contact the manufacturer like some replies highly advised ^^^^^^!! After all, Starline does not want to be held liable or incur a bad reputation!!!!
I finally can reply after waiting for power (including WiFi) to come back on after a power outage of almost 8 hours from the thunder snow and high winds (+60mph) in Western Kansas!!!
Brass is designed to pull or stretch at the 200 marks due to the head space datum differential of the case and chamber!!! Those marks are ways higher in two different regions and are not nearly as radial in stretch like the 200 mark!!! The irregular, ragged stretching of your cases looks like folding occurred in the extrusion (formation) between formation punch and die stations or the "PICK N PLACE" device for the progression of forming!! Dents and/or wrinkles can occur in the casing misalignment seating in the dies, casing ejection, punch withdrawal issues, and/or timing issues in seating, ejecting, and/or staging!! As a formal Process Engineer, I have seen such issues in progressive punch and die mechanics and had to TROUBLESHOOT them!! I believe the manufacturer had a broken ejector spring and/or lose ejector pin causing erratic hang ups of the ejector and over travel since the folds occurred in two different regions!!! The reason you don't see it on the unfired brass is the next formation processes and annealing tends to smooth out the wrinkles and dents by slightly folding the brass! When you fire form that folded brass, the brass now stretches, mostly at the weakest point, at the folds, and not completely at the 200 mark!!
If this is a factory flaw issue, which I suspect, the next firing of that brass could cause ruptures since those regions in question are now really thin!!! IMO, I would contact the manufacturer like some replies highly advised ^^^^^^!! After all, Starline does not want to be held liable or incur a bad reputation!!!!
I finally can reply after waiting for power (including WiFi) to come back on after a power outage of almost 8 hours from the thunder snow and high winds (+60mph) in Western Kansas!!!
Last edited:
Mark, I've been offline from above reply!!! I would sort trying to find those bad cases!! As mentioned above, when in doubt, don't use!!! I would contact Starline!!! If those were my cases, I would do a destructive analysis on one case!! Choose the worse, us a Dremel abrasives wheel cutter (cutting a quarter cross section cutaway) and examine the cross section and determine the cause of the marks!!! If there is any thinning or double overlapping in it, notify Starline and request replacements, including the cross sectioned one!!!
Last edited:
Old Navy
Gold $$ Contributor
Try the sharpened paper clip on the inside to see if it catches on them.
That is worth a try!!! But, if it is a punch and die issue, and you can't fell it on the outside (Die Side), you probably won't feel it on the inside because the punch will also roll form the blemish!!!
I ran into that and was baffled few years back. It was on Nosler brass though and .308. It looked like impression marks, the only thing I thought happened was I didn’t get the steel wool off them. lol I wasn’t concerned and kept reloading and shooting it in matches. I’m sure I still have this brass in the reloading room.
Bill, yes, I have noticed that some of the cases have both marks on them, at just under the shoulder and at the web area, but most of them are as you see in the pix, either just under the shoulder or in the web area, but not both, I have some factory PPU I will try to get out and shoot soon to see if this happens to this ammo, I'm planning to load some more of this brass {unfired brass} and shoot it through another rifle to see if the problem occurs in another chamber, if it does I'll box it all up and send it back,
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.