Tuners

[Jvance513]

If people would understand the difference between tuning a gun, and keeping a gun in tune it would help. A tuner isn’t used to find your load, it’s used to be able to travel and shoot in difference weather conditions and be able to keep your tune in check. If you have a garbage load a tuner isn’t going to help you. A tuner is no different than adding or taking away a tenth or two of powder. It’s about finding optimal exit timing at the muzzle. Aka a good load. It’s all about the sine wave. People won’t think twice to agree that barrel harmonics effect a load, but will argue that a tuner doesn’t do anything

 

[LVLAaron]

They also said charge weight and seating depth tuning did not improve accuracy. That was strike three for me, haven't watched their vids since.

I've yet to see anyone who "debunks" tuners actually test them in the way that people in the know use them, or the way the manufacturer says to use them. They don't believe they work, so they do crap testing to confirm what they want to find. I expect this from Hornady. I'm disappointed that Litz went this route.

 

[quest450]

I might be wrong but I believe I've seen only one one tuner on the line in top 14 shooters this past weekend in GA at the Sharpshooter Showdown

 

[Bill Norris]

If people would understand the difference between tuning a gun, and keeping a gun in tune it would help. A tuner isn’t used to find your load, it’s used to be able to travel and shoot in difference weather conditions and be able to keep your tune in check. If you have a garbage load a tuner isn’t going to help you. A tuner is no different than adding or taking away a tenth or two of powder. It’s about finding optimal exit timing at the muzzle. Aka a good load. It’s all about the sine wave. People won’t think twice to agree that barrel harmonics effect a load, but will argue that a tuner doesn’t do anything

Conditions rule. Learning how to keep the tune in check requires testing on different days with different conditions present.

 

[SGT. Slaughter]

I might be wrong but I believe I've seen only one one tuner on the line in top 14 shooters this past weekend in GA at the Sharpshooter Showdown

I think you might be correct Sir!

 

[richard]

I wouldn't be without a tuner! I go preloaded to every match I shoot and have had great results.
You just have to know how to run it.
Richard

 

[Fairchaser]

Guitars get out of tune and so do rifles. I wouldn’t have a guitar without the ability to tune it on the fly. Would I travel out of town, spend thousands of dollars and countless hours developing a load only to find my rifle is out of tune with no way to fix it? The tuner is as important as any other part of the rifle. But, you have to know how to run it. It’s not as easy as some of the pithy sayings make it out to be. But it’s saved my bacon a few times!

 

[Dolomite]

Ok I'll sacrifice my resources if anyone wants to donate a SS EC Tuner Brake Gen 2 5/8x24 I'll test it out.

PS make sure its the stainless version.

 

[Chris kloster]

Didn't Hornady say they don't work...

“Your groups are too small”. -Hornady

 

[BoydAllen]

A friend who is a short range group competitor, and who does his own barrel work, and tests more than anyone that I know, has found that his tuners broaden his tuning node, significantly, which makes it easier to maintain tune. He adjusts his tuners to refine his tune after finding the best load that he can conventionally. In the short range group game, my inquiries have shown that virtually all of the top shooters that I have asked do not use their tuners to tune at matches. This upsets some folks when I mention it, but I am just reporting here. Generally they adjust tune by varying their powder charges, just like they did pre-tuner. If you choose to criticize this approach, I suggest that you compare your shooting with theirs.

 

[richard]

I believe that if you take the time and really, and I mean really learn how to use a tuner, it's a huge advantage on the firing line. Why would you give up a group because you don't have the right load with you? With a tuner just play on the sighter and get it right and shoot your group.
And just what is a "top shooter"? I know many shooters that I would consider "top" that don't shoot the big matches because they don't like the travel.
Not bragging but to just give a little perspective, this year I set 2 NBRSA world records, took home the New Mexico 3 and 4 gun, won the Kansas State. All of this was done shooting 28.6 grs of 133, all rounds were preloaded and everything was done with the tuner. All I can say it works!
I love that I don't have to drag all my loading stuff to the match. If I thought I was leaving something on the table I would take it. I'm not.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I believe that if you take the time and really, and I mean really learn how to use a tuner, it's a huge advantage on the firing line. Why would you give up a group because you don't have the right load with you? With a tuner just play on the sighter and get it right and shoot your group.
And just what is a "top shooter"? I know many shooters that I would consider "top" that don't shoot the big matches because they don't like the travel.
Not bragging but to just give a little perspective, this year I set 2 NBRSA world records, took home the New Mexico 3 and 4 gun, won the Kansas State. All of this was done shooting 28.6 grs of 133, all rounds were preloaded and everything was done with the tuner. All I can say it works!
I love that I don't have to drag all my loading stuff to the match. If I thought I was leaving something on the table I would take it. I'm not.

Exactly! This is just so well stated and it mirrors my thoughts! It's hard to believe there is still any doubt and please, someone show me any scientific data to support a sweet spot that never changes in regard to tuner setting. I know of no basis for that notion, at all, but I'd love it if someone can point me to it. I understand people that have powder tuning at a national or very competitive level of competency not wanting to change from what works but if you can predictably powder tune at that level, you can learn to use a tuner, easily. IMO, the two methods of keeping up with tune both work, but a tuner is way easier and I can go pre-loaded and leave a lot of loading equipment at home. Not to mention, I get to enjoy the match more, as opposed to working. Lol!

You must know tuner mark values and how they affect group shape. Moving a tuner should not be random, in any shape, form or fashion. Same as powder...I don't think top shooters just randomly change powder charges either. The change per increment value is what we have to know and that's true by any tuning method. Anything else is guessing, frankly.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I might be wrong but I believe I've seen only one one tuner on the line in top 14 shooters this past weekend in GA at the Sharpshooter Showdown

Perhaps tuners do not lend any significant improvement in that Format.

In Short Range Score, If I catch myself caught in a horizontal tune, I will do a slight tuner adjustment to induce about 1/2 a bullet hole of vertical.
I can have a better chance of keeping the bullet on the X rather than missing the X in the horizontal in a condition that I cannot see the difference in.

It’s not fool proof, but more times than not it works.
At the very least it gives me an option rather than just fighting the condition.

 

[JEFFPPC]

If people would understand the difference between tuning a gun, and keeping a gun in tune it would help. A tuner isn’t used to find your load, it’s used to be able to travel and shoot in difference weather conditions and be able to keep your tune in check. If you have a garbage load a tuner isn’t going to help you. A tuner is no different than adding or taking away a tenth or two of powder. It’s about finding optimal exit timing at the muzzle. Aka a good load. It’s all about the sine wave. People won’t think twice to agree that barrel harmonics effect a load, but will argue that a tuner doesn’t do anything

I pretty much agree with you except for one thing. You can make poor load look good at times with a tuner. Problem is when it goes away.....It goes away. Develope a good load without using the tuner and when it strays it can usually be corrected with 10 shots or less, in my experience

 

[jpjulian]

Didn't Winchester use tuning screws in the forearm of some 52d's in the 1950's? A 70+ year old fad? They have evolved over time but tuners are going strong and I see more at matches than ever.

My 1963 vintage 52D has the tuner screws in the stock. I've played with them some but have not really seen any difference, good or bad, with how loose or tight the screws may be. Whenever I've pulled the stock I have always counted the clicks and tightened the screws the same number of clicks when putting the action back in. That screw adjustment may have been from 60 years ago.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I pretty much agree with you except for one thing. You can make poor load look good at times with a tuner. Problem is when it goes away.....It goes away. Develope a good load without using the tuner and when it strays it can usually be corrected with 10 shots or less, in my experience

The main reason Im not a tuner fan. Very hard for guys to not tuner tune a barrel. A real tune doesnt go out of tune all that much. Tuner tunes do. Also just my experiance dealing with a lot of customers. I really like to see guys learn to tune first. Once your in the hunt then try a tuner. But I dont like to see new guys on them.

 

[Bc'z]

95 proof, 80% Rye, 20% Barley, Old Overholt Monongahela Mash.
One hell of a tuner......

I believe that's group tight'ner

 

[Bill Norris]

The main reason Im not a tuner fan. Very hard for guys to not tuner tune a barrel. A real tune doesnt go out of tune all that much. Tuner tunes do. Also just my experiance dealing with a lot of customers. I really like to see guys learn to tune first. Once your in the hunt then try a tuner. But I dont like to see new guys on them.

Agree. I think the new guy should learn to tune with the bare ingredients first. Tuners require more time and effort to really see what is happening with different conditions.

 

[Larry Koch]

any weigh of 2 to 5 oz on the end of a barrel can work as a tuner. Its all about slowing down the barrel hormonics over a given load.

 

[richard]

I will say this, you have to understand how to tune a gun whether it has a tuner or not.
I actually discourage a new shooter having a tuner until he/she understands the basics of tuning.
Can you throw any load with whatever seating depth and make it shoot great with a tuner? No, it doesn't work that way. You might luck a group but you won't luck an agg. A tuner keeps a well tuned gun shooting good as the conditions change during the day. Once I have found where the tuner needs to be on the first match I'm good to go. I know exactly what I need to do keep it there, no guessing to it. The rifle is speaking to you on the target, you have to learn what it's telling you to do. It's not magic, it's spending the time to understand it.
I see people giving the tuner a half turn and shoot, give it another 1/4 turn shoot again. They are guessing and hoping. Your not going to play at the top of the page doing that.
For me the biggest thing is finding the tune for that day on the first target. I don't care how many shots on the sighter, I have to know my setting for that day. After that the rifle is telling me what to do. I don't have to turn it and take some sighters to check it out. From the previous group I can tell what to do.
A lot of the problems come from turning it to much. Sometimes only .001 change is all that is needed. A .003 movement would be a big change for me.
I can't say this enough, finding the initial setting on the first target is everything. Also the initial setting changes from day to day. It's sounds difficult but it really is not once you understand what you are doing.