Shoulders Problem

[dellet]

Looks Like you found the problem.

Another 1-4 turn or get more pliable brass. Or a press with less flex

 

[bozo699]

Nickel stuff is meant to be left, laying on the ground, shining pretty for someone else to find.

^^^^^^^^^
My sediment exactly!…
Wayne

 

[slydo]

Looks Like you found the problem.

Another 1-4 turn or get more pliable brass. Or a press with less flex

They don't go further... Even with a full turn of the die

 

[bozo699]

Get yourself a box of standard brass rounds and try them to see how it goes. What I find strange is a fired factory round will not rechamber in your rifle.

Wayyyyy strange!… it’s not uncommon for a factory case to stretch .010-.012 , it’s not uncommon for a die to not be able push the shoulder back without some altercations to the shell holder or die what is soooooo strange is the OP said it extracts fine but won’t rechamber!!!…. That makes no sense at all!
Wayne

 

[dellet]

They don't go further... Even with a full turn of the die

I guess that only leaves two choices then.

 

[ShtrRdy]

I was thinking the angle of the shoulder on the resized brass looks different than the angle of the shoulder on the fired brass.

 

[bozo699]

One shell holder is 0.122" the other one is 0.115" I tried them both in both dies

Slydo,
You see the gap between the shell holder and the bottom of the die?… that’s what the problem is. Either your press is flexing if your unable to close the gap or LCazador is correct and you have ruined the base of your case. I forget but I believe you said the case at the base grew about .005? Is that correct?… if so the load is way over pressure!… you shouldn’t grow much more than .0005 if you are your over pressure and the brass is junk!.. start over. Nickel brass is tough to size it’s hard on dies
Wayne

 

[Ringostar]

What makes you think that they’re .010 too long? I hope that you’re not going off an unfired new case vs what you measure after firing. You don’t want to size it back to original size, only size it if it doesn’t rechamber right after firing.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

If the fired case extracts properly and will chamber without sizing. Technically all you need to do is decap, neck size(to properly hold the seated bullet), prime, charge, seat(crimp if you desire) go shoot. FL sizing after one firing USUALLY is sizing enough so the shoulder doesn't move forward from sizing. Setting the sizer for this is best done with the die gutted. For this the die is started NOT touching the shell holder(which I always use same brand as die) and screwed down in small incremental amounts until No change in datum length from fired. Lube only the neck(inside and out, unless gutted) and the body. Die needs to be clean.
With the this procedure, it doesn't matter how short the new brass is compared to the actual rifle chamber. And factory ammo/brass is always short of a SAAMI spec chamber. Intentionally.

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

Your last pic shows a significant gap between the top of the shellholder and the bottom of the sizing die! What press are you using? From what I can see it appears to be an open front "C" type. Some of these are know to have flex in them. Also they can crack when under pressure and open up under pressure. That over loaded big mag can put a lot of stress on the press when trying to resize! What rifle? Factory barrel? Headspace been checked?

Frank

 

[slydo]

Wayyyyy strange!… it’s not uncommon for a factory case to stretch .010-.012 , it’s not uncommon for a die to not be able push the shoulder back without some altercations to the shell holder or die what is soooooo strange is the OP said it extracts fine but won’t rechamber!!!…. That makes no sense at all!
Wayne

I know it makes no sense... But they extracted really easily... But won't rechamber AT ALL... Have 20 Win and 20 Brwng ... No one won't get in the chamber
Found a FIRED Nosler all brass... Feed in LIKE A NEW ONE... Even before resizing So all nickel ones will go in the recycling bin
Thanks you all for your time and help
From Québec with love

 

[bozo699]

I know it makes no sense... But they extracted really easily... But won't rechamber AT ALL... Have 20 Win and 20 Brwng ... No one won't get in the chamber
Found a FIRED Nosler all brass... Feed in LIKE A NEW ONE... Even before resizing So all nickel ones will go in the recycling bin
Thanks you all for your time and help
From Québec with love

Good luck to ya sir, hope this is the end of your troubles
Wayne

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Yes very weird, extract proper but won't go back into the chamber(almost as if the rim is stuck above the extractor) which would move the shoulder a bunch more forward in the chamber. Gutted die, stripped bolt make die adjustments much easier/correct.

 

[BoydAllen]

It's touching the shell holder + 1/4 turn
Told you first ... Read, view, and try everything ... I'm not a machinist but a damn good mechanic
Just don't understand WHY shoulders are so forward 0.010" after shooting

If you mean forward from unfired, it is common for new brass to be quite a bit shorter than a properly headspaced chamber. Also, is it more often than not that on one firing from new that the case is not long enough at the shoulder to need to have the shoulders pushed back. For once fired brass, my usual advice is to size a case so that the head to shoulder measurement is the same as the fired case (removing the primer before measuring the fired case) and try it in the rifle. If it goes in without bind, you didn't need to bump the shoulder. Some guys forget that the only reason that we bump is because the case needs clearance in the head to shoulder direction. Years ago, a friend was seeing excessive variation of shoulder bump with cases that had been fired several times. They would bump, but all over the place. A bit of carefully done flame annealing took care of the problem.

 

[Murray Brook]

Even before resizing So all nickel ones will go in the recycling bin

Glad you found your problem and a good place for your nickel plated ones

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I shoot/reload nickle plated brass occasionally, have not had any issues. 17 rem to 338wm and handgun ammo.

 

[HandgunHTR]

I think I see what your issue is.

I would guess that your press is flexing. You are using a Lee Reloader press, correct? Is it a newer one or one of the older, less robust ones? The older ones tend to flex quite a bit, especially when trying to size brass that is hard or needs a lot of sizing in the web area.

I would bet that if you upgrade to a Rockchucker or even a Challenger press it will solve your problem.

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

Finding a random piece of fired brass on the ground that goes in your chamber OK does not mean your problem is the nickle plated cases. It simply means it was fired in a rifle with a smaller chamber than your gun. I commented on your pic of the case in the die about the gap that existed between the shellholder top and the bottom of the die. THAT is your problem. Have you done any thing about that?

Frank

 

[Webster]

I know it makes no sense... But they extracted really easily... But won't rechamber AT ALL... Have 20 Win and 20 Brwng ... No one won't get in the chamber
Found a FIRED Nosler all brass... Feed in LIKE A NEW ONE... Even before resizing So all nickel ones will go in the recycling bin
Thanks you all for your time and help
From Québec with love

I need a Canada sweat shirt. Hiked in the Canadian mountains when I was younger.

 

[ebb]

^^^^^^^ That is one of your problems. Having brass that ejects but won't rechamber, I have yet to understand. If they were fired in another gun and won't rechamber in yours I could get. Could your next door neighbor sneak into the house and use your reloading gear while you are at work? I hope you learn the problem and let us know the answer.