Coyotefurharvester
Silver $$ Contributor
Does the Howa have a recess for the bolt nose? If so use marker to see if the bolt is rubbing in front of the lugs when closing on a cartridge, should strip the bolt for checking this.
Heavy bolt lift
- Thread starter Pizzadude
- Start date
ShtrRdy
Silver $$ Contributor
I must have not asked the question correctly because your answer does not apply to what I was trying to ask.
Please try the following. Close the bolt on an empty chamber. Dry fire the action. Now, feel how much force it takes to lift the bolt. Does this feel like a "heavy lift"?
That Winchester 129 stuff gets lots of bad reviews on giving over pressure, that ammo is your problem and is why it sells so cheap from the warehouse places.
I'm intentionally holding off on using handloads. I've been in touch with HOWA, and they told me they will NOT honor their warranty if handloads are used. IMHO, that's pretty crappy! Forcing folks to either lie or buy expensive factory ammo. I've pretty much whittled it down to 1- Oversized chamber. 2- Stiff bolt spring 3- combo of both. 4- Slightly oversized/extra sharp extractor claw.
NO it does not.
Here's the thing-HOWA has informed me that they will NOT honor the warranty if handloads are used. I've put approx. 30 factory rounds and maybe-25 handloads through it. UPDATE: They are going to look at it.
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I've applied red gun grease and checked the backside of the bolt lugs once the bolt was closed and opened-there are no signs of the grease rubbing on the back side. There was good contact on the tops and bottoms/sides of the lugs.
But the title said "Heavy bolt lift" This IS a pressure sign.
Whan happens if you drop rhe powder charge 1 grain?
The fired brass has fully expanded to the chamber @ .471" This will require more effert to open the bolt.
After more firing, that area of brass will not be sized by the die. There will be no spring back.
Normal.
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I'm holding off on any more handloads until I get the warranty issue straightened out. HOWA has informed me they will NOT warranty rifles shot with handloads
I went back and read the whole thread and am confused if the original Crap Winchester ammo is the only thing that gave the heavy bolt lift?
Run some Hornady American Gunner or Hornady Black ammo through it and see how it does.
I thought the post said newly barreled. Lots of factory ammo is super hot the case should still eject normally. All it takes is some very small machine marks to stop the extraction from working properly if this is a factory rifle and barrel you’re going to have to send it back or take to a gunsmith. I’ve seen this with several factory rifles and sometimes it takes several returns. This is not normal rifle behavior and it’s not your fault just send it back. They will probably replace barrel
Coyotefurharvester
Silver $$ Contributor
I would strip the bolt and slowly close the bolt(no case,cartridge) if you feel or hear a click(just before camming the bolt) the bolt nose isn't fitting properly into the barrel recess. When you fire a round the bolt nose will drag on the recess causing the heavier bolt camming effort. At worse you eliminate a mechanical issue and it becomes a warranty issue if there is a fitment problem.
Maybe a chamber cast will help to eliminate some questions?
The barreled action needs to fit in the stock correctly. No binding or twisting of the action.
No binding, twisting. It sits in an MDT XRS chassis for short action Howa.
Thanks Kracken. The original ammo-Winchester, was the worst. My handloads and different factory ammo-Hornady Precision Hunter 143gr ELDX -still gave a hard bolt lift-though not as bad as the Winchester. I apologize for the confusion. I'm working on the rifle, and trying to answer a lot of good folks who took time to help.
I hate to reply after 36 replies. I hate reading all the relies to make sure I don't repeat something or sound stupid. I would FL size and handload a couple cases with a very mild load about 2-3 gr. under listed max). See if the problem goes away. Whatever is causing it obviously has to be a case dimension. The problems can only be caused by a dimension change from firing.
From what I have read an increase in diameter more than .002” at the .200” line above the case head is a clear sign of pressure. You have an increase of .004” without any other signs of pressure. This part of the case is not in the chamber so the extractor can grab it. Any dimension increase can only come from pressure. I don’t know if measuring length changes with a bump gauge would help. Are the cases getting bigger in diameter or getting too long and pushing against the bolt?
Your comment:
I am experiencing a heavy bolt lift with what I consider an excessive amount of brass on the bolt face, after ejecting a FIRED round.
The only way you can get brass on the bolt face is after firing the case head is against the bolt face with heavy contact pressure and rotating the bolt faces scrubs brass off. I don’t see this kind a damage on your case pix.
These are not typical ejector hole swipe marks like I see from a Remington bolt face. They look like raised areas that were not rubbed off.
Left case funny mark at 2;00
Right case mark at 9:00.
From what I have read an increase in diameter more than .002” at the .200” line above the case head is a clear sign of pressure. You have an increase of .004” without any other signs of pressure. This part of the case is not in the chamber so the extractor can grab it. Any dimension increase can only come from pressure. I don’t know if measuring length changes with a bump gauge would help. Are the cases getting bigger in diameter or getting too long and pushing against the bolt?
Your comment:
I am experiencing a heavy bolt lift with what I consider an excessive amount of brass on the bolt face, after ejecting a FIRED round.
The only way you can get brass on the bolt face is after firing the case head is against the bolt face with heavy contact pressure and rotating the bolt faces scrubs brass off. I don’t see this kind a damage on your case pix.
These are not typical ejector hole swipe marks like I see from a Remington bolt face. They look like raised areas that were not rubbed off.
Left case funny mark at 2;00
Right case mark at 9:00.
Thank You Webster- I appreciate every one's replies for sure. To address your questions beginning with the first one: Not being a Smith or Ballistician, I would think that excessive pressure would most definitely force the case against the bolt head for sure. The 64 dollar question is-where is it coming from? I just took another measurement -a fired handloaded case-NOT loaded hot where the shoulder meets the neck-.463". Now a new FLS case at the same point -.457". A new NOT FLS sized case-same place is-.457". Cases are not growing in length-they are by the measurements taken expanding outward. To me, that would indicate a chamber that is too big. Pictures to follow. One is brand new, one is fired and not sized, and one is fired and sized
pic on left newly loaded round that was FLS. Middle pic is of once fired NOT FLS, right pic is new case nothing done to it.
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