Lyman m5 scale drifting

[thesteelguitarman]

Well, I'm just about going crazy with this scale. I hope someone can help.

I recently picked up an lyman m5 scale for a great price. And woah, this scale really blown me away with how sensitive, well built, and designed it was. A huge improvement over my m500 rcbs, which you all know.

Anyway, this scale will drift up to a tenth up and down. (2 tenths)
It will be repeatable as long as you carefully lift the pan and set it back down, however, even the tiniest movement while moving the poise, it CAN read off. Not always, but often.

Say I zero the scale, then put a 20 grain check weight on it. That 20 grain check weight will weigh 20.1 grains, or 20.0. Just depends. Maybe 19.9.

Then when the zero is returned, it may read true zero or A tenth up or down.

As you can tell, this doesn't invite itself for accuracy .

I've read many the threads, and anything short of a scale tuner, I just don't know what to do.

Ive cleaned the agate bearings with achohol and took a tooth pick to clean the groove.

Looked at the knife edges under a microscope, used a ceramic rod to remove the fine burr, polished and burnished the edge with graphite.

put a piece of felt below the pointer to cushion drops.

Leved the pan so it reads zero when the beam is level.

Brought the knife edges perpendicular to the beam( they were slightly off).

Ensured the knife edges where centered on the bearings(not touching the retainers).

After all this, and many smaller failed attempts, nothing I tried cured my problem.

Any time the smallest, and i mean smallest amount of movement occurs in the knifes and bearings, it may read off. A little wiggle of the beam may bring in back to the previous zero, but maybe not..

Please help

 

[WV Hitman]

I've not any trouble like this with my scale like your. Had it for a good while.
I'd call the tech people at Lyman. They've always been good to me and straightened out any problems at no cost.

 

[thesteelguitarman]

I've not any trouble like this with my scale like your. Had it for a good while.
I'd call the tech people at Lyman. They've always been good to me and straightened out any problems at no cost.

It's a older m5. I don't think they offer support as it's discontinued.

 

[rwj]

Member @sparker is this site’s beam scale guru…

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Say I zero the scale, then put a 20 grain check weight on it. That 20 grain check weight will weigh 20.1 grains, or 20.0. Just depends. Maybe 19.9.

You’re probably just as close as the guys using the chargemasters. Just enjoy using it unless you want to upgrade.

 

[sparker]

Well, I'm just about going crazy with this scale. I hope someone can help.

I recently picked up an lyman m5 scale for a great price. And woah, this scale really blown me away with how sensitive, well built, and designed it was. A huge improvement over my m500 rcbs, which you all know.

Anyway, this scale will drift up to a tenth up and down. (2 tenths)
It will be repeatable as long as you carefully lift the pan and set it back down, however, even the tiniest movement while moving the poise, it CAN read off. Not always, but often.

Say I zero the scale, then put a 20 grain check weight on it. That 20 grain check weight will weigh 20.1 grains, or 20.0. Just depends. Maybe 19.9.

Then when the zero is returned, it may read true zero or A tenth up or down.

As you can tell, this doesn't invite itself for accuracy .

I've read many the threads, and anything short of a scale tuner, I just don't know what to do.

Ive cleaned the agate bearings with achohol and took a tooth pick to clean the groove.

Looked at the knife edges under a microscope, used a ceramic rod to remove the fine burr, polished and burnished the edge with graphite.

put a piece of felt below the pointer to cushion drops.

Leved the pan so it reads zero when the beam is level.

Brought the knife edges perpendicular to the beam( they were slightly off).

Ensured the knife edges where centered on the bearings(not touching the retainers).

After all this, and many smaller failed attempts, nothing I tried cured my problem.

Any time the smallest, and i mean smallest amount of movement occurs in the knifes and bearings, it may read off. A little wiggle of the beam may bring in back to the previous zero, but maybe not..

Please help

I have a couple of ideas. First, run a Q-tip in the slot where the copper vane rides. A small, nearly microscopic fiber or strand of steel wool will cause you to tear your hair out. If that’s not it, make sure that the copper vane isn’t making contact with the scale body. It’s very easy for the rearward edge of that vane to just barely make contact and likewise, add to hair loss.
If that doesn’t do it, I would need to play with it.

Scott

 

[K22]

PM Boyd Allen for help. He helped me improved my beam balances. This guy knows his stuff.

 

[DLT]

Probably already know this but any wind, breeze, or your breath will cause it to move.

 

[thesteelguitarman]

I have a couple of ideas. First, run a Q-tip in the slot where the copper vane rides. A small, nearly microscopic fiber or strand of steel wool will cause you to tear your hair out. If that’s not it, make sure that the copper vane isn’t making contact with the scale body. It’s very easy for the rearward edge of that vane to just barely make contact and likewise, add to hair loss.
If that doesn’t do it, I would need to play with it.

Scott

Thanks for the reply Scott. I will try that and report back. I have a feeling it may be visiting you :/

 

[thesteelguitarman]

Probably already know this but any wind, breeze, or your breath will cause it to move.

Yep, tried it in multiple locations too in case there was a draft..

 

[JFrank]

I’ve had several of these older scale’s’ I had one that was possessed by a demon’ Scotty was able to work some anti voodoo magic and rid me of the beast.

Best wishes

 

[thesteelguitarman]

You’re probably just as close as the guys using the chargemasters. Just enjoy using it unless you want to upgrade.

A whole tenth up or down?
No way!

 

[thesteelguitarman]

I’ve had several of these older scale’s’ I had one that was possessed by a demon’ Scotty was able to work some anti voodoo magic and rid me of the beast.

Best wishes

That's great to know. This one seems voodoo too...

It's a mechanical instrument. Assuming everything is in spec, it should read okay. A tenth up or down is just not accurate enough

 

[Bc'z]

That's great to know. This one seems voodoo too...

It's a mechanical instrument. Assuming everything is in spec, it should read okay. A tenth up or down is just not accurate enough

+ or - .1 variation is not good.
I'm running a Parker tuned Redding #1 that resolves a kernel of N140.
@sparker mentioned having scales for sale through Christmas, I'd reach out and see what you can figure out.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

A whole tenth up or down?
No way!

With the drifting that goes on on those types of electronics it is very possible.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Resolving, Drifting, and Repeatability are three different issues.
Zero the scale. Let it sit. Don't touch it.
After a while, drop a kernel of your favorite powder on the pan, being careful not to touch anything.
Can you SEE that kernel on the pointer?
Drop another. Let it sit. (resolving)
Lightly touch only the pointer to move it up a little, let the scale settle.
Lightly touch the pointer to move it down a little, let the scale settle.
Was there a 'Dead Band' between the two? Friction? (Repeatability).

 

[JFrank]

From zero to one kernel doesn’t always appear to move the pointer of a highly tuned scale but add one additional kernel to a couple of grains already in the pan and you will see the additional resolution.

 

[thesteelguitarman]

With the drifting that goes on on those types of electronics it is very possible.

Oh, I'm sure it is! But I would not expect that from a good balance beam

 

[wv.citybilly]

With every load: I tap my scale lightly on the beam with the open-end of tweezers like a tuning fork, just enough to make sure the balance is what it purports to be.

 

[thesteelguitarman]

The

Resolving, Drifting, and Repeatability are three different issues.
Zero the scale. Let it sit. Don't touch it.
After a while, drop a kernel of your favorite powder on the pan, being careful not to touch anything.
Can you SEE that kernel on the pointer?
Drop another. Let it sit. (resolving)
Lightly touch only the pointer to move it up a little, let the scale settle.
Lightly touch the pointer to move it down a little, let the scale settle.
Was there a 'Dead Band' between the two? Friction? (Repeatability).

scale has great sensitivity. And when doing this test resolves to the same point.
When the junction of the bearings and knifes are moved, even just ever so slightly from say moving the poise ect, it MAY read to a new point. Usually a tenth lower or higher. And it continues to have great sensitivity. Almost as if the agate bearings are moving too much in their slots or something.