I'm not sure about the Redding FL die but from what I looked up, the set you have comes with both a "standard" die with an expander ball, and a bushing die. Since you didn't use the bushing die, I figure you used the expander ball die. In any event, I have a Forster FL die that uses an expander ball, it's really important to properly align the ball vertically inside the die so that the full neck is compressed, then the ball expands it on the way out. I could see that if the ball is out of position, it may result in the neck being compressed into the ball on the downstroke.
First-Time Annealing v.IsThisNormal?
- Thread starter TSFineGuns
- Start date
Since this didn't happen before I don't think it's a die issue. Over annealed brass may be the issue. You mentioned 'neck lube'. What is that? If that is the graphite media that Redding makes you may have a build up of that in your die.
Agree it looks like galling from the case grabbing and releasing in the die. Are you lubing the case necks? Can you feel something like chatter as the neck gets sized? Take the top of the die off and see if brass is building up on the neck area.
Dang! You are right. I forgot about that. My bad. I am using the expander on the right inside the FL Sizing Die. What you are saying makes sense. That the neck is being sized when the ball is in the neck which could cause that. But as you can see in the second picture, it would appear the ball would be through the neck well before the neck sizing is taking place.
Attachments
Attachments
Yes. Lubing neck with imperial neck lube media as pictured above.
Yes. I can feel the chatter. As I said, the effort to FL size the .280ai is significant over all my other calibers.
Yes. There was brass building up. I have to clean out the FL for every 10 rounds there’s so much shavings.
swd
Silver $$ Contributor
Do you have a bore scope? If you do clean the die good with alcohol or something like that and take a look at the neck shoulder junction in the die. I would polish that area with some 400 wet/dry wet with WD or Rem oil. You want to slightly break that edge and burr and give the neck area a light polish. Dies are pretty hard, steel wool probably do anything. If you’re not comfortable with that send it back to Redding.
Ccrider
Gold $$ Contributor
Clean the die, size a case and if you continue to see this, call Redding customer service, tell them there is a problem with the die and ask them to replace it.
Or, save some time, and as Tony Boyer said in his book, chunk it in the nearest river, and get a custom die for your chamber.
Or, save some time, and as Tony Boyer said in his book, chunk it in the nearest river, and get a custom die for your chamber.
I had something similar to that in the beginning of my loading days and it turned out that I wasn’t lubing the outside neck well enough and chattering as you said through the die.. I only now use imperial dry neck lube for inside of the neck when loading bullets and use imperial wax of the out side of neck and case. I have never had a problem again.
Just payed attension to the arrow in the pix. Kind of looks like others said a sharp corner in the die which shouldn't be there. If I had to take a guess at it maybe the opening in the die for the neck is smaller than the neck o.d. and it's forced into the die against a sharp edge? A burr could reduce the neck entrance. Maybe your neck thickness is to big for the die neck opening. It shouldn't be. The dies should be made to accomodate factory brass.
what I would do.
1. Clean out all loose brass and brass adhering brass to the die.
2. Look for a sharp edge in the die. Round the sharp edge.
3. The factory neck thickness is probably about 0.014". I would turn them to .0125". After turning you may need a bushing die so you can control the sizing.
I turn my necks to 0.0125". and size with a Redding FL-S bushing die. The body part of the die should align the neck good enough that it shouldn't enter the neck sizing part of the die crooked. The transition in the die from the case moving thru the shoulder area into the neck I would think should be a smooth transition without sharp corners.The defect is uniform and consistant all around the neck indicating to me it's highly likely a sharp edge. Almost all long range competitors use bushing dies. I never use ball expanders or mandrels. Whats the diameter of a new case neck or a sized neck without damage compared to the diameter of the neck in the pix with the arrow. You mentioned brass chips in the die. You probably have brass bonded to the die surface which is hard to remove.
muleystalker
Silver $$ Contributor
This right here, Ditch the dry lube while sizing. Use Imperial Wax on the neck too not just the body. I have had that Dry Lube dirty up my dies in the neck area real bad. Also take swd advice on cleaning up the die because its not just the dry lube.
I believe it's in the die. Annealing shouldn't cause that. Annealing might make it more pronounced because the brass is softer. Seems you had shavings before you Annealed. Maybe the die just needs a light sandpaper ran in that area. If those shavings get embedded in the die, it would need cleaned real hard. Matt
What is the OD of the neck?
fired?
sized?
sized with bullet seated?
Die may also be over sizing the neck.
Frank
fired?
sized?
sized with bullet seated?
Die may also be over sizing the neck.
Frank
Never used anything in the last 20 years except a light vis petroleum oil to lube cases. Oil has the best film strength of just about anything and it stays where you put it. I wouldn't be surprized if your lube contributes to the problem. I don't like the idea of dry lube, it probably gets pushed off as it enters the neck area of the die. The neck is the most sized area on the whole case. It needs good lube. Clean the die and lube with oil and try it. I think you said some cases were not damaged which leads me to think there is no die defect. I always take the ball rod out and throw in in a drawer. Been reloading since 1970 without a problem.
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Use the sizing die wax only on the neck as well as the case. Also get the proper bushing and use the bushing die instead of the standard die. The standard die is over sizing the neck. It's a simple measurement, check the fired neck diameter and then run a case through and check the diameter again. If it's sizing more than .004" your standard die is oversizing the brass. You probably have a generous chamber dimension as compared to the standard die dimensions. Measure the fired neck diameter and then your loaded neck diameter and make note of that. Get a bushing .003" under the loaded diameter. You can save those cases with the galling by neck turning.
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OP, do you have any un-annealed brass to try? If so, clean the die well and try some that haven't been annealed. You may need to clean the die with a good copper solvent and steel wool or similar if it has brass galled in it....or lightly polish it with med grit sandpaper and oil. If it has brass galled inside, it'll likely continue to scratch brass until you get it out. Report back.
46and2
Silver $$ Contributor
Annealing leaves a sticky tarnish on the case surfaces, inside and outside!
Please try tumbling in corncob then using Imperial lube.
Never saw a sticky surface. 1000F cooks any fluid.
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