Trimming the head of a case, anyone???

[over_thetop]

Okay, maybe I need to clarify a bit.
The brass I acquired from my friend is resized by me using my Forster small base die. Most of the brass I'm using is from him but a fair amount is my own brass that has been shot through this rifle many times. The issue I'm encountering seems to happen no matter what case I am using.

I don't have any new brass so I can't answer that question. I don't plan on buying any more brass as I have over 10,000 cases of just .308 brass alone sitting in boxes under my work bench. I chose Lake City brass because it's the brass I have the most of because my friend and I plan on going to a range that has targets out to 1.25 miles and everything in between. It's on our bucket list of things to do before we die.

I have Forster go/no-go head space gages and know how to use them. So I believe I've answered that question.

I'm not trying to trim my cases to within 0.0005". And I seriously doubt 0.0005" would make a difference. I don't think anyone makes a case trimmer that can do that. I may very well be wrong about that but I'm not about to buy another case trimmer.

Yeah, someone mentioned the competition shell holders from Redding. I may make an investment in them in the future.

Someone else mentioned swapping out barrels. I'm unlikely to consider doing that as this barrel has proven to be quite accurate and has less than 1000 rounds put through it. Also, my reloads are typically a grain or two below max (according to QuickLoad) so excessive chamber/barrel wear is unlikely though not impossible.

I keep all brass segregated per each rifle. I'm aware that no two chambers/barrels are the same and it is wise to not swap brass between them, so I don't.

So before I conclude my response, I want to say thank you for responding. You've helped me determine that I'm on the right track to solving this issue and have also given me a few things to reconsider. So, again thank you.

brass all behaves differently.... brand to brand, lot to lot, one case out of twenty, etc etc......

AND I watched a video on you tube not to long ago about allowing, AFTER annealing, to hold the case in the die for about 10 seconds. I do that a few times rotating the case to get even consistent results. You could, by now, work hardened the brass, to the point, to be having sizing, and chambering issues.

 

[Thor357]

brass all behaves differently.... brand to brand, lot to lot, one case out of twenty, etc etc......

AND I watched a video on you tube not to long ago about allowing, AFTER annealing, to hold the case in the die for about 10 seconds. I do that a few times rotating the case to get even consistent results. You could, by now, work hardened the brass to be having sizing, and chambering issues.

I do the same thing!!! I thought I was the only one!!! Maybe I should stop doing that, eh?

 

[over_thetop]

I do the same thing!!! I thought I was the only one!!! Maybe I should stop doing that, eh?

do you anneal ?

 

[Thor357]

Oh contrar oh contrar. Didn’t take much to achieve this, CONSISTENTLY

NICE!!!! Good job!!!

 

[over_thetop]

NICE!!!! Good job!!!

so you do anneal ?

 

[Thor357]

do you anneal ?

Occasionally, yes. About every 5 firings, give or take.
I know, I know. Some folks say you have to anneal after every firing and others say they've never annealed.
Everybody has an opinion on this. I decided to meet somewhere in the middle. I use an induction annealer by the way.

 

[over_thetop]

Occasionally, yes. About every 5 firings, give or take.
I know, I know. Some folks say you have to anneal after every firing and others say they've never annealed.
Everybody has an opinion on this. I decided to meet somewhere in the middle. I use an induction annealer by the way.

occasionally doesn't cut it.... anneal every firing.... IDC who tells you otherwise. I think Lapua doesn't need it if I rememeber correctly, and other high end brass. I just picked up Starline..... we'll see.

What brand of brass are you using ?

 

[Thor357]

occasionally doesn't cut it.... anneal every firing.... IDC who tells you otherwise.

See, I don't believe it's necessary to anneal after every firing. There are those whose opinion I trust that say it isn't necessary. Plus I haven't noticed any difference at the range. And yes, I have cases that have been reloaded I don't know how many times and they are still holding primers, necks/cases have yet to split. I have had just a few show signs of imminent case separation. Thankfully they didn't fail at the time I fired them, I got lucky.
Though, I do believe annealing after every firing doesn't hurt.

 

[over_thetop]

See, I don't believe it's necessary to anneal after every firing. There are those whose opinion I trust that say it isn't necessary. Plus I haven't noticed any difference at the range. And yes, I have cases that have been reloaded I don't know how many times and they are still holding primers, necks/cases have yet to split. I have had just a few show signs of imminent case separation. Thankfully they didn't fail at the time I fired them, I got lucky.
Though, I do believe annealing after every firing doesn't hurt.

Are those opinions using premium brass ? I asked you what brand you use. IE, Rem brass is thicker than my LC brass. I bought Lapua once.... before I learned how to accurize my loads now. Maybe by now it's time to anneal. Maybe by now the brass is so work hardened it needs it every firing. I don't believe it makes a difference at the range, but I wouldn't know since I do it every firing.

well in my experience I have trouble bumping shoulders, anneal and problem solved. Not holding case in die for a spell, withdrawn, brings the shoulder with it too much for me.

 

[Thor357]

Are those opinions using premium brass ? I asked you what brand you use. IE, Rem brass is thicker than my LC brass. I bought Lapua once.... before I learned how to accurize my loads now. Maybe by now it's time to anneal. Maybe by now the brass is so work hardened it needs it every firing. I don't believe it makes a difference at the range, but I wouldn't know since I do it every firing.

well in my experience I have trouble bumping shoulders, anneal and problem solved. Not holding case in die for a spell, withdrawn, brings the shoulder with it too much for me.

Hmm...I too have tried Lapua, Norma and other "premium" brass in the past. They did okay, just not enough to justify their cost. Elsewhere, I answered the question of which brass I'm currently using and why. Just so you don't have to go back and search through all my replies, it's Lake City brass.

Annealing does often make resizing easier, it's just in my opinion, annealing after every session isn't necessary. I could be wrong but like you, I wouldn't know because I don't anneal every time.

From time to time, I will go out and buy some boxes of the best/expensive ammo I can find and do a comparison test of sorts. Almost always, my reloads out perform the best by a considerable margin, enough so that it's obvious on the target. Remember, I said almost always.

I know I come across as a negative Nelly but really I'm not! I value your ideas/thoughts. I find them helpful. Keep throwing things out to me, you are making me think and I believe I'm learning from you.

 

[Thor357]

Just an update. I'm almost through this batch of 200 cases of LC brass and my "experiment" has proven successful to me. I've checked each and every case for functionality in the rifle and every one of them has chambered easily and smoothly.

Thanks to all of you for offering your thoughts, ideas and suggestions, they are appreciated.

 

[over_thetop]

Just an update. I'm almost through this batch of 200 cases of LC brass and my "experiment" has proven successful to me. I've checked each and every case for functionality in the rifle and every one of them has chambered easily and smoothly.

Thanks to all of you for offering your thoughts, ideas and suggestions, they are appreciated.

so how much do you set the shoulders back ? And do you try them on a completely stripped bolt ?

 

[Sixgun]

I think if your brass is well formed as in a few firings and your brass is sized tight (as in full length sized and .001- .0015 headspace) it will iron out the 'face of the base'.

 

[Webster]

Yes, I'm not in the same league as Erik nor can I afford to discard a barrel because it won't shoot 1/2 MOA at 1000 yards!
It is true that my shooting skills maybe in question as I have pretty much been self taught over the last 5.5 years I've been doing this. But then why can I shoot sub MOA at various distances with my .223 version of the same rifle? Not that the .308 version is not doing the same, it's just a case/chamber issue with the .308 version.
Oh no!!! You mentioned the word OCD!!! I AM one of those that fusses over the minutiae that comes with reloading...sorta. I do know when to stop, it just may take me a while to do that!

I wouldn't worry about this cr@p if what I was doing wasn't working. Will it make a difference at the range? Probably not. And once I actually realize that, I'll stop with this lunacy. (have you seen my pills anywhere!!)

 

[dellet]

Okay, maybe I need to clarify a bit.
The brass I acquired from my friend is resized by me using my Forster small base die. Most of the brass I'm using is from him but a fair amount is my own brass that has been shot through this rifle many times. The issue I'm encountering seems to happen no matter what case I am using.

I have Forster go/no-go head space gages and know how to use them. So I believe I've answered that question.



So before I conclude my response, I want to say thank you for responding. You've helped me determine that I'm on the right track to solving this issue and have also given me a few things to reconsider. So, again thank you.

Go/no-go gauges have absolutely nothing to do with sizing brass to fit a chamber. All they do is confirm that the chamber is within a .010” spread. Or whatever the spread is on the SAAMI drawing.


If the die is not resizing the brass to fit within that spread, the only way to know that is to measure the brass from the base to the designated datum point diameter on the shoulder.

Just because the case fits a chamber gauge, is no guarantee it will fit your chamber.

No offense intended. But if you are expecting a set of go/no-go gauges to insure your brass will fit a chamber, you’re using them wrong.

Actual measurements are needed.

 

[Webster]

Some rifles just shoot better with certain bullets. I can clearly see groups consistently better with certain bullets. I have shot about 10 different bullets in my rifle. Of all the off the shelf non custom match bullets the 60 gr Sierra Varminter clearly shoots smaller than anything else. I have shot a Barts 68 gr Trophy Match. definitely consistent smaller groups. I shoot a 6BR and a 6BRX for GH hunting. I think I may have got a barrel better than most. The 6BRX shoots under 1/2" when FF. With the price of bullets it's hard to try 5-10 different bullets. I settled on anything under 1/2" is good enough. Finding a good place to hunt is more important than constant tinkering. Been reloading since 1970.

 

[over_thetop]

Some rifles just shoot better with certain bullets. I can clearly see groups consistently better with certain bullets. I have shot about 10 different bullets in my rifle. Of all the off the shelf non custom match bullets the 60 gr Sierra Varminter clearly shoots smaller than anything else. I have shot a Barts 68 gr Trophy Match. definitely consistent smaller groups. I shoot a 6BR and a 6BRX for GH hunting. I think I may have got a barrel better than most. The 6BRX shoots under 1/2" when FF. With the price of bullets it's hard to try 5-10 different bullets. I settled on anything under 1/2" is good enough. Finding a good place to hunt is more important than constant tinkering. Been reloading since 1970.

1 bullet three powders, if they are loaded right. I don't scout 6 hours away, that's for sure.

 

[over_thetop]

Go/no-go gauges have absolutely nothing to do with sizing brass to fit a chamber. All they do is confirm that the chamber is within a .010” spread. Or whatever the spread is on the SAAMI drawing.


If the die is not resizing the brass to fit within that spread, the only way to know that is to measure the brass from the base to the designated datum point diameter on the shoulder.

Just because the case fits a chamber gauge, is no guarantee it will fit your chamber.

No offense intended. But if you are expecting a set of go/no-go gauges to insure your brass will fit a chamber, you’re using them wrong.

Actual measurements are needed.

Just because the case fits a chamber gauge, is no guarantee it will fit your chamber.

flush with the top step and above the low step it does.

 

[over_thetop]

I think if your brass is well formed as in a few firings and your brass is sized tight (as in full length sized and .001- .0015 headspace) it will iron out the 'face of the base'.

Sounds like a plan. Nice hot load with the right headspace

 

[searcher]

I had a problem bolt handle requiring a bit of pressure to close on fired and resized cases, when new cases or fired/not resized cases did not have this problem. Turned out to be a mismatch between my die and chamber. Resizing actually moved the shoulder of a fired case forward (ever so slightly) rather than pushing it back.

That, to me, sounds like a tight expander ball possibly pulling your shoulder forward when extracting the die from the case? The die itself shouldn't be able to pull a shoulder forward unless the brass is lengthening during sizing (normal), pushing the shoulder a bit forward and the die was not adjusted downward enough to set the shoulder to counteract this. It is most likely one of these two issues going on there. Sometimes folks do run across a die that will not adjust downward enough to do this properly for their specific chamber.