What causes groups like this ?

[DLT]

I am not an expert but I always thought the more body parts you have touuching the gun the more variables you have. I use zero cheek pressure, thumb doesn't go over the stock, rifle butt in the hollow part of the shoulder so the butt doesn't roll off of the shoulder bone on recoil. I use a Harris bipod and have to reset the legs locked in a foreward position after every shot. I mark on the bench with a magic marker the bag and bipod leg location. It's a varmint hunting rifle. I slide the rifle back and forth a little and see of the cross hair moves vertically. If they don't the bag is out of alignent and needs to be rotated a little so the cross hairs move vertically. Do you flinch? Can you see the cross hair move on the target when the gun goes off? Have someone load the rifle for you so you don't know if rhe chamber has a shell in it. When you pull the trigger on an empty chamber or a fired case you will know if you have any unwanted reactions.

I’m sure I flinch. I practice dry firing a good bit and do not see the reticle move. I have poor skills but have always managed to make most of my trash group up pretty small till this stock. Should I be using a rabbit ear bag when on the bench shooting for groups ? Or a bag rider they are not bad priced for the bravo

 

[DLT]

Bipods can be tricky to shoot well....a bit of skip and you can have vertical and horizontal both. I'm assuming you're shooting over wind flags?

Not at 100 I don’t. Wind wasn’t stirring much. Then again I was a little flustered and didn’t pay the wind a lot of attention.

 

[jimmymac]

I’m all ears….. not all money though

All I am saying is that I would be happy with those groups. If you are not, then I would try to shoot from a more stable setup as a start. I would also use flags if I was trying to tighten things up.

 

[DLT]

All I am saying is that I would be happy with those groups. If you are not, then I would try to shoot from a more stable setup as a start. I would also use flags if I was trying to tighten things up.

What would help be more stable ? Use a front rest ? Different rear bag ? I have a Caldwell br front rest I could try

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

The $50. Hard Leather Protektor Rear Bag with, the Homemade, "Toe Runner" really SHRUNK,. My group's.
Front Rest, either Bipod or adjustable, Caldwell,,.. made NO difference, for me

 

[jimmymac]

What would help be more stable ? Use a front rest ? Different rear bag ? I have a Caldwell br front rest I could try

A pic of the gun would help.

 

[DLT]

A pic of the gun would help.

Not a good pic but only one I have on phone

 

[jimmymac]

I would dump the bipod and use a front rest.

 

[AlNyhus]

Not at 100 I don’t. Wind wasn’t stirring much. Then again I was a little flustered and didn’t pay the wind a lot of attention.

When checking my bipod equipped hunting rigs from the bench, I use a piece of smooth hardboard with some rubber drawer liner on the bottom to grip the bench top. Between the bipod feet and the hardboard, I put a piece of plain old kitchen waxed paper. That allows the bipod to slide instead of skip. A piece of smooth ceramic tile with the drawer liner under it and the waxed paper on top also works good.

As to not using flags....I've got nuthin' for 'ya on that limitation. Even a wooden dowel or two with a piece of surveyors tape on them will give you 100%++++ more info than nothing.

Per your pic, it's going to be real easy for the front of that rear bag to get up against the grip when the gun recoils.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

You DON'T have, an "issue" with "Toe Angle" on that Stock But, I'd buy, a GOOD "Leather" Bag for, BEST "Tracking". Do you Have a "Good" trigger Pull ?? Like 1 to 1.25, Pounds ?

 

[DLT]

You DON'T have, an "issue" with "Toe Angle" on that Stock But, I'd buy, a GOOD "Leather" Bag for, BEST "Tracking". Do you Have a "Good" trigger Pull ?? Like 1 to 1.25, Pounds ?

It’s a jewel hvr. I do not know the weight but it’s under 2lbs

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

I have a Jewell, also with, the medium Springs Set at,..a crisp, 14 ounces to, 1 Pound.
The HARD Leather Protecktor Bag, really "Works" for Me and like Kracken Mc, said you might TRY,. a Bit of Bullet "Tuning" for, Jump / Jam. ( Good Luck ! )

 

[CharlieNC]

Since you have been changing gear quite a bit, probably a bit of practice and experimentation will help to refine your shooting technique. Dry firing at home can yield consistency as well.

 

[wv.citybilly]

Vertical Stringing

 

[ShtrRdy]

Have you tried shooting it off the bags you originally started with?

 

[Dgd6mm]

So, you say you shot it well in the HMR stock at 100 yards and out at distance, correct? The KRG is a very light stock. Have you added any weight to it?

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Easy change would be to o clamp a scrap board across a concrete bench top to push the bipod into. This should tell you more about your load.

 

[DLT]

So, you say you shot it well in the HMR stock at 100 yards and out at distance, correct? The KRG is a very light stock. Have you added any weight to it?

I’m getting some weights for it this week. A grip handle weight and 2 heavy lop spacers

 

[Doom]

I have been through a couple stocks and a few bags to try and figure out what my problem is. I guess next step is ask you guys and/or let someone else pull the trigger on it

I built the rifle (6xc) with a bergara hmr stock and used cheap sandbags from midway that don’t squeeze at all and the rifle shot very well both close range and at distance 500-600 yds. I don’t like the flat bottom stock so I purchased a krg bravo and a crosstac squeeze bag. But I can’t figure out how to drive it for the life of me. I have been using Harris bipods up front for both stocks. I’m sure nothing I have is ideal.

Nevermind the poi between the 2 targets I made a scope adjustment between them.
View attachment 1592312View attachment 1592352

This is a general observation and it's based on what I have seen as a range officer when asked about groups when people have issues and on some evaluation of my own issues from some competitive shooters. You have one group shot in a setup which held pretty well vertically with some horizontal spread. You came off the rifle, made a scope adjustment and then set up for the second group. On this group you held tight horizontal and scattered vertically. This is extremely obvious.

So what changed? Load? It is highly unlikely that the load caused this. Five random shots for each group would spread more randomly. Size of the group maybe load but not the pattern. You show two very distinct patters in two separate groups.

Equipment? I assume you didn't change bags, etc so the change again is unlikely to be the equipment itself. Scope? Could be but not likely.

Shooter? Here is the thing that changed most between the two groups. Maybe you only looked over the rifle and made the scope adjustment or maybe you left the rifle entirely but you did release the rifle. To shoot the right target you had to adjust the POA to that target which involved the movement of rifle, but what about the bags? Did you realign them. Did you repeat the rifles position on the bag? Did you hang the front swivel on the bag. OR did you change your hold on the rifle trying to reduce the horizontal spread from the first group?

Bottom line is none of us can diagnose the problem here just by looking at those groups. We can offer opinions based on what we have seen and experienced. Ultimately you will have to determine the cause of the scatter. In this case I tend to think it is shooter induced.

 

[DLT]

Have you tried shooting it off the bags you originally started with?

That I have not as they are low, meaning it’s hard to get the muzzle down enough without squeezing the fool out of those bags