Help me pick a new barrel/cartridge for my girlfriend?

[Dave M.]

After shooting at 600 yard Nationals this week it really made me respect the folks that brought heavy hitting cartridges to the mid range event. I saw lots of 7PRC, 7PRCW, 7FCP, 7MAX, and even guys firing 300 Win Mags at 600 yards (something I’ve never seen at any 600 yard event before). The wind on Saturday and Sunday were absolutely crazy and certainly no place to be shooting a 6 dasher (which both my girlfriend and I brought). My girlfriend runs a Panda action on a beautiful wood stock, with a NF Comp 15-55x, and 21st Century Hybrid front rest. The wind bucking abilities of the 7FCP, 7PRCW, and .284win are so superior to the 6 Dasher at 600+ yards at any winds over about 10mph, and certainly more forgiving in reversing conditions like we saw all day long on Saturday and Sunday (day 1 and 2 of the 600 yard mid range National Championship at Lodi this past week).
I’m considering spinning up one of the following cartridges for my girlfriend: 7PRCW, 7FCP, .284Win
So my questions for the cartridges in consideration are as follows:
1. Can all of these be fired from her Panda action (not interested in replacing her action at this point in time)?
2. I’m thinking that she will likely be using the Berger 180 or 184 hybrids, or possibly something up to 190gr. What type of muzzle velocity is each of these cartridges capable of using the 180gr Berger Hybrids?
3. What type of brass are required as the starting point for the 7PRCW? And the 7FCP?
4. The only advantage of her using the .284 win is that I have the brass for her, as well as the custom sizing and seating dies.
5. Are people running N555 and H4350 in all three of these cartridges? Or is there a powder out there better suited for it?

I’m running a straight .284 Win now and I’m planning to have her shoot it next time we get to the 600 yard range. She is concerned with managing the recoil, but we are running a RAD 2A recoil reducer on her rifle.
I had her come down the firing line to watch the young lady I was scoring for yesterday (13 yr old Shiloh Plue), who was firing a 7PRCW and managing the recoil extremely well. Might I add that Shiloh is likely no more than 90-95lbs MAX. After seeing Shiloh shooting the 7PRCW, and after showing my girlfriend the 600 yard ballistic comparison of her 6 dasher 105gr Hybrid, to Shiloh’s 7PRCW; both my girlfriend and I came to the conclusion that the dasher just gives up far too much to these other cartridges on heavy wind days. And we saw how accurate they were yesterday when the wind subsided to a very manageable level even by 6 Dasher standards.

Final question, what is the correct twist rate for these three cartridges (I assume 9”, 8.5”, or even 8” would all work well).

Thanks to our local experts who will read and comment on this subject (like Alex Wheeler, F Class John, Bryan Blake, etc.)

Best regards,
Dave Monette

 

[G7BC]

I shoot a Panda F-class action and have shot both straight .284 and 7-6.5 PRCW, 284 is 2800 fps, 7-PRCW is 2850-2900 fps ( some run it hotter) Lapua necked up or ADG makes PRCW brass, ~51 grains H4350 is what I ran in straight .284 180/184 Bergers. Currently running N555 in the PRCW. I run 8.5 Twists but many run 9 Twist. ( Norm shot his 200-22X with a 9 twist and 184's)

Panda F-class actions are all the same as far as headspace...If you wanted to "Try Before you Buy" I have a Krieger 32" 1.250 , no-turn straight .284 Barrel , threaded for an EC tuner that was hammer and still shooting when I pulled it around 1500 rds. It shot a 597-31X for 2nd Place , 500 yd Mid-Range club match, right before I pulled it. The recoil between .284 and PRCW is virtually identical as far as I can tell. I'd be willing to send this off to you for actual shipping cost and maybe an extra $5 in fuel.

 

[LVLAaron]

Anything based on the PRC is going to need a magnum bolt.


Worth considering one of the bigger 6mm's shooting 115 dtacs?

 

[L.Sherm]

How about the 25 Kulzer ( 25x47) with 133's?

 

[DiffEQ]

Sounds like a good reason to build another gun.

 

[drop_point]

.284 should work with the existing action, but you’ll need a magnum bolt for the PRC cartridges.

 

[STOMP442]

Split the difference and do a 6.5 with the heavies. 260 Ackley (personal favorite) or the tried and true 6.5x55 are both very mild on recoil but perform very well for their size without being barrel burners. My Ackley is pushing the Berger 144s at 2950 in a 28" tube with 43gr of powder.

 

[piie]

600m and a 6.5CM is a perfect match - 139gr Lapua - 2740fps - low recoil, long barrel life, more than adequate - can even push to 1000m or further.

 

[dthomas]

I would go with the 284 since you can use the same bolt. Twist rate anything between 8 to 9 would work fine.

 

[LVLAaron]

Isn't 284 brass going the way of the dodo bird?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Do you want to buy a new bolt? On a Panda, the bolts are lapped in, sometimes quite heavily. So the new magnum bolt and original bolt should both be lapped in together to assume lug contact on both. The 284 is the obvious choice if you can find some brass unless you want to get a magnum bolt. A middle groud would be 25s or 6.5s. They do have a noticeable advantage in the wind over a 6 without the recoil of a 7. Still wont have the ballistics of the 7 though.

 

[Dave M.]

I would go with the 284 since you can use the same bolt. Twist rate anything between 8 to 9 would work fine.

This is a huge reason to keep her in a .284.

 

[F Class John]

This is a huge reason to keep her in a .284.

Just a thought, but another consideration without jumping to a magnum and everything that would entail would be just bump up your 284s to a Shehane. Easy enough to open up your seating dies and would only really require getting a new sizing die.

Edit: The advantage would be that you can pick up close to 100fps on the same bullets you're using without having to go through the magnum rigamarole.

 

[MGYSGT]

Why not rechamber to one of the 6BR big brothers.

 

[Dave M.]

Do you want to buy a new bolt? On a Panda, the bolts are lapped in, sometimes quite heavily. So the new magnum bolt and original bolt should both be lapped in together to assume lug contact on both. The 284 is the obvious choice if you can find some brass unless you want to get a magnum bolt. A middle groud would be 25s or 6.5s. They do have a noticeable advantage in the wind over a 6 without the recoil of a 7. Still wont have the ballistics of the 7 though.

Thanks for calling us Alex. Great to chat with you and we truly appreciate your advice and insight.
Dave & Marisa

 

[SVT_Tactical]

260AI is an easy button, low recoil, gives up very little to the 7s.

 

[mgunderson]

Interesting subject. How many points do you expect a better bullet to provide? Is this the last thing preventing the national title win? The ballistics tables often show more potential improvement than is practically experienced. We are still reading the wind and are often less aware shooting a more capable bullet. My humble opinion. I suggest shooting a little bullet in local matches and become more hyper aware of the wind or just shoot in stupid big wind more often. Let the flaming begin.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Interesting subject. How many points do you expect a better bullet to provide? Is this the last thing preventing the national title win? The ballistics tables often show more potential improvement than is practically experienced. We are still reading the wind and are often less aware shooting a more capable bullet. My humble opinion. I suggest shooting a little bullet in local matches and become more hyper aware of the wind or just shoot in stupid big wind more often. Let the flaming begin.

But aren’t you missing the point that Dave being a seasoned shooter just walked away from a big match seeing that a change in something would give them a advantage in those adverse conditions.

 

[wk4036]

After shooting at 600 yard Nationals this week it really made me respect the folks that brought heavy hitting cartridges to the mid range event. I saw lots of 7PRC, 7PRCW, 7FCP, 7MAX, and even guys firing 300 Win Mags at 600 yards (something I’ve never seen at any 600 yard event before). The wind on Saturday and Sunday were absolutely crazy and certainly no place to be shooting a 6 dasher (which both my girlfriend and I brought). My girlfriend runs a Panda action on a beautiful wood stock, with a NF Comp 15-55x, and 21st Century Hybrid front rest. The wind bucking abilities of the 7FCP, 7PRCW, and .284win are so superior to the 6 Dasher at 600+ yards at any winds over about 10mph, and certainly more forgiving in reversing conditions like we saw all day long on Saturday and Sunday (day 1 and 2 of the 600 yard mid range National Championship at Lodi this past week).
I’m considering spinning up one of the following cartridges for my girlfriend: 7PRCW, 7FCP, .284Win
So my questions for the cartridges in consideration are as follows:
1. Can all of these be fired from her Panda action (not interested in replacing her action at this point in time)?
2. I’m thinking that she will likely be using the Berger 180 or 184 hybrids, or possibly something up to 190gr. What type of muzzle velocity is each of these cartridges capable of using the 180gr Berger Hybrids?
3. What type of brass are required as the starting point for the 7PRCW? And the 7FCP?
4. The only advantage of her using the .284 win is that I have the brass for her, as well as the custom sizing and seating dies.
5. Are people running N555 and H4350 in all three of these cartridges? Or is there a powder out there better suited for it?

I’m running a straight .284 Win now and I’m planning to have her shoot it next time we get to the 600 yard range. She is concerned with managing the recoil, but we are running a RAD 2A recoil reducer on her rifle.
I had her come down the firing line to watch the young lady I was scoring for yesterday (13 yr old Shiloh Plue), who was firing a 7PRCW and managing the recoil extremely well. Might I add that Shiloh is likely no more than 90-95lbs MAX. After seeing Shiloh shooting the 7PRCW, and after showing my girlfriend the 600 yard ballistic comparison of her 6 dasher 105gr Hybrid, to Shiloh’s 7PRCW; both my girlfriend and I came to the conclusion that the dasher just gives up far too much to these other cartridges on heavy wind days. And we saw how accurate they were yesterday when the wind subsided to a very manageable level even by 6 Dasher standards.

Final question, what is the correct twist rate for these three cartridges (I assume 9”, 8.5”, or even 8” would all work well).

Thanks to our local experts who will read and comment on this subject (like Alex Wheeler, F Class John, Bryan Blake, etc.)

Best regards,
Dave Monette

Something you can get brass for.

 

[Dave M.]

Interesting subject. How many points do you expect a better bullet to provide? Is this the last thing preventing the national title win? The ballistics tables often show more potential improvement than is practically experienced. We are still reading the wind and are often less aware shooting a more capable bullet. My humble opinion. I suggest shooting a little bullet in local matches and become more hyper aware of the wind or just shoot in stupid big wind more often. Let the flaming begin.

She has won a Michigan state championship in the full bore prone 300/500/600 match last year. She can shoot, but both of us struggled in the ridiculous wind of nationals on Saturday and Sunday. As far as I could see, we were the only people that I saw or spoke to all weekend that were shooting a 6 dasher in the open division. She can handle the higher recoil and can certainly see the advantage of shooting a heavier bullet as quickly as possible. She is working on learning to read mirage better and shooting in heavier winds. She has a great opportunity to shoot a .284 win due to the overwhelming generosity of @G7BC
Dave