Bear spray 33% effective according to report

[holstil]

I can't understand why anybody would choose anything other then a firearm for defense in bear country Unless your an anti gunner.
A grizzly bear is friggin huge! And a startled or pissed off one, well, ill take what little chance I have with a gun. I don't give a crap about statistics or what some "expert" says. They've obviously never been attacked. The only stat that matters is the one that's eating you.

 

[rayporter]

yes, after reading the above claim of 97% success with handguns I would always have a firearm.
and it is nerve wracking when you are a walking bait station after a moose kill.

and they all move quite fast. black bear hunting last week and many vanished in a second with no more than a 20ft grunt and jump.

 

[msinc]

.......The mist from the bear spray is very fine, and easily moved by the wind. If the bear is upwind (much more likely) you are just going to get a face of spray.

Depends a lot on the spray...most of the pepper spray intended to be used against bears is like high velocity shaving cream. Anyone remember that priceless video of the policeman walking along and filling an entire demonstration line of protesting hippies mouths with pepper spray?? It was democrat spray that day and the only thing "fine" about it was everyone that got hit had to swallow the entire mouthful!!! I mean the cop hit them all in the mouth, the one longhaired libtard rolled over backwards and puked.....
Might not work on a bear so good, but remember, a bears sense of smell is way more sensitive. Where I'm going with all this...if a filthy stinking dope smoking hippie cant take it I doubt a bear will do too much better.

 

[370bc]

If published statistics can be believed, you are much more likely to be killed by your neighbors dogs. In 2017 two people suffered a fatal bear attack. During the same period there were 18 fatalities inflicted by domestic dogs.

I fear domestic dogs more than anything. They can appear literally out of nowhere. There is not an IQ test required to be the owner of a vicious breed of dog. There are no organizations checking in on fido and seeing how he is getting along. I keep promising myself to be armed while I mow grass. A neighbor that keeps to themselves had a dog that attacked me, but did not bite. I yelled at him and he ran away. If I would of been packing, that would of been the last time he tried to attacked anyone. My old neighbor (Smoking Hot Babe) had 2, count them 2 Mastiff combo dogs. They were pups and they looked the size of mountain lions. Luckily they moved.

 

[284winner]

Bear Spray Report Wrong





So, for over a decade we've heard that bear spray is more effective than firearms at stopping a bear from attacking us - and yet the author of the report says that his report didn't say that. More propaganda from some group where they created a false narrative so that they could add credibility to their agenda.

I've never heard bear spray is more effective than firearms for bear attacks. I've heard it's simply another option and a non-lethal one. Many hikers, campers or wildlife observers do not own or carry firearms. In that scenario, bear spray is an ideal deterant. The animal rights activists would have you believe that it's as effective. I carry both when in bear country. I do not want to ruin a western hunt with having to kill a bear with a firearm for being too curious. Bear spray will deter a curious bear as studies show. A bear with Cubs and feeling threatened, not so much. I would ruin my western big game hunt in defense for my life against an angry mama grizzly if necessary. As a hunter in that situation, I believe we need to know the difference. Having spray and a firearm is not a bad idea. Studies are like reviews. They aren't 100% accurate.

 

[holstil]

I can understand using spray to deter a curious bear to keep noise down for a hunt (having guns also). Never an ideal device for protection against aggressive bears. Sounds like people assume they'll only ever be confronted by animals that can be deterred.

 

[rr2030]

I think a dry powder fire extinguisher might work better than pepper spray, no ?

 

[dusterdave173]

I like the old joke --Sign at wilderness camp ground entrance

Lots of Bears around here--If you hike wear bells and carry pepper spray
Know your bear signs- -( picture of bear scat) says This is Grizzley poop--it is usually full of bells and smells like pepper spray

 

[ohlongarmisle]

Bear Spray Report Wrong





So, for over a decade we've heard that bear spray is more effective than firearms at stopping a bear from attacking us - and yet the author of the report says that his report didn't say that. More propaganda from some group where they created a false narrative so that they could add credibility to their agenda.

ANYBODY , hiking in griz country that doesn't carry an adequate firearm for protection is just plain STUPID,I frequent Polebridge Montana ,me,wife,and this boy along with my Maverick , Mossberg top folding shotgun pump action with Brenneke,Magnum crush,first round is a 3inch 000 buck which he will receive as the dog is distracting him,the dog would most certainly be killed as he won't back down, three griz encounters in 10 years ,so far so good the dog can smell them at over a mile and forewarn us.

 

[ken158]

I don't agree, you wont have time to pull bear spray and try it and then resort to a gun, it's one or the other kind of event.

The author of the report that everyone claims proves that bear spray works says that it's not effective against black bear and only good on brown bears when you come in casual contact, but it's only 33% effective when you are actually being attacked by a bear. That means that you have a 66% better chance of stopping a bear attack using a gun.

If bear spray is 33% effective, we need to know how many bear victims there were in the study before it can claim a percent of firearm effectiveness.

 

[Eudean]

Hard to sell bear spray if it's NOT advertised as being extremely effective. Maybe should blame advertisers who claim it is effective.
Plus, a lot of people don't train enough to be effective with firearms but Hey anyone can point and push a button!

 

[ohlongarmisle]

Hard to sell bear spray if it's NOT advertised as being extremely effective. Maybe should blame advertisers who claim it is effective.
Plus, a lot of people don't train enough to be effective with firearms but Hey anyone can point and push a button!

You're giving humans too much credit, idiots trying daily to take selfies with bears,elk,and bisons doesn't give me much faith. Bear spray doesn't even deter our attack trained shepherds. I wouldn't bet my life on it, that grizzly in the photo above was responding to an electronic call,Polebridge Montana , however I was 12 feet off the ground in a huge fir blind, he moved on despite making me,had he tried his hand at climbing he'd got a 270 in his head.

 

[SteveOak]

It would never have even occurred to me that spray could be more effective.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Well Tarzan only carried a knife, didn’t have a pocket to put bear spray in

 

[Brians356]

"There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Answer me this: What percentage of neighborhood dog encounters result in a dog attack? Same question for grizzly bears.

Follow-up: What percentage of grizzly bear attacks are fatal vs neighborhood dog attacks?
-

Five years and still just crickets. QED
-

 

[Lefty2506]

Five years and still just crickets. QED
-

I don't see the where the relevance of the question justifies the effort of a response because the follow up question implies that somehow a fatal attack (bear or dog) is more significant that a non-fatal attack which leaves me unclear on the point you're actually trying to make. As far as bear spray vs firearm, it would seem that the nearly unanimous consensus is that bear spray CAN be useful in ending a "bear encounter", but works more like a scented candle (sets the mood) or maybe even a dry rub when dealing with most bear attacks.

As far as stray dogs and bears go, there are some similarities to be considered. You really can't predict what either one will do, and should behave accordingly to keep yourself and your loved ones safe. There are also huge, obvious differences. Even with a pack of stay dogs, the dog knows you are bigger and will take that into consideration when deciding what to do where as the only thing a large bear is going to think about is whether it wants to know more about you, wants you to leave the area, or wants to kill you. In 2 out of 3 of those scenarios, the bear stands a chance of being successful regardless of whether your armed or not. The other major discrepancy is that with a dog or dogs, the animal can be convinced of changing its mind at pretty much any point during an attack. As soon as the discomfort outweighs the potential gains, the attack ends. Conversely, with a large bear, how much harm or pain we are actively inflicting on the bear is not a likely factor in ending the attack. The attack either ends when the oxygen content in the bear's blood becomes too low to maintain consciousness, when the bear's central nervous system is no longer able to communicate effectively with the rest of its body, or when the bear looses interest in your corpse.

 

[Bc'z]

It's my understanding that if your hiking in bear country and get charged, you just need to be faster than your buddy.
Now if the application of bear spray on your buddy aids you escaping the bears advance, I'd say it's pretty effective.

Seriously, when your in bear country it's my understanding that having your presence known with bells or chatter warns the bear of your presence, of course this doesn't help during hunting season.
My orthopedic surgeon was mauled by a grizzly in Mt. while bow hunting elk, seems he got between a sow and her cubs.
In the time it took him to get to his pistol she was on him, his hunting partner shot the bear killing it.
Doctor showed me the scars, not pretty.

 

[dellet]

Interesting thread about cherry picking data.

From the OP

I asked Tom Smith (author of the report that is the bases for claiming that bear spray is 96% effective) if it was valid to conclude that the studied effectiveness of bear spray in brown bear charges is just 33 percent. “That’s what you would conclude from that data,” he says,

The same question could have been asked of any of the data sets discussed in the linked article and the same very narrow answer applied.

I’m not going to imply anything other than the main point of the article linked was that no reliable data exists. Just like the data for the effectiveness of carrying a firearm in stopping crime when no shot is fired, and no police report is filed.

The premise is off.

It’s likely that the number of bear assaults stopped with bear spray is far greater than reported. Simply because the areas where a firearm may legally carried in bear country are outnumbered, by those where you can’t.

Even tho firearms now may be legally carried in National parks, that right is limited to local laws. So while it’s perfectly legal to open carry in Yellowstone, a carry permit by the local sheriff would be required in Yosemite. Oddly enough bear spray is outlawed in Yosemite and other parks in California.

For what it’s worth, if you can’t carry in a National park, you can’t carry outside the park. Here’s a pretty good breakdown of carry rules in national parks.

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/resources/federal-ccw-law/other-federal-locations/

Is bear spray the best option overall?
That’s arguable, but it may the best option available to you.

And if it doesn’t work, you’re probably deploying it wrong.

Can of Bear Spray Saves Man’s Life During Grizzly Attack

Have you ever heard of bear spray saving somebody’s life during a grizzly bear attack but not from the actual use of the bear spray? Shayne Burk is a disabled Army veteran and a nature enthu…

www.montanaoutdoor.com

 

[ngb1787]

I am wondering how many of you have been charged by a bear?

 

[nakneker]

When I lived in Alaska we dealt with brown bears constantly, this out in King Salmon on the border of Katmai National Park. I still go back to fly in areas silver fishing every four years. We’ve, I’ve, had a lot of bear encounters up there the vast majority of which are short because most of those bears vacate the area. Some hang around but keep their distance, some get in your personal space and we just leave the area giving up the salmon hole if they want it.

My experience with bears are they are a lot like humans. The vast majority aren’t bad bears, they just want to be left alone and then once in awhile you find a bad bear, bad attitude, mean, aggressive etc. we leave as soon as one of those come around, there’s been a few.

We always carry. I always have my Glock 20 in my Kenai chest holster which allows me to carry in waist high water and my brother has an 870 with an extended tube but we also carry bear spray. In 2020 we had a 9 o clock wind and a young brown bear came walking down the trail we were on. My brother wanted to test the bear spray and at a range of 15-20 feet just taped the spray, enough of it made to the bear to catch a whiff and he vacated the area post haste. That was on Afagnak island. If I had to choose spray or gunpowder and bullet the Glock wins every time but if your in a group having both isn’t a bad idea.

Or you can be like Timothy Treadwell and meet a horrifying end by carrying nothing but a friendly smile. If you don’t know who that is Google it, it might inspire you to not do stupid things in bear country and at the very least carry bear spray.