How to get into competition with Aerospikes?

[HappyHellfire]

So I was thinking about getting into a competition to prove that the aerospike bullets could be better. The question is which competition. Of course I want to pick the one that the aerospikes will do the very best. So here is what they have to offer:

They fly like regular bullets out of the muzzle but when the bullet slows to a certain speed (based upon the aerospike design) the drag dramatically drops. This means that the time of flight should be less for longer ranges and thus less wind error. They are also solid copper if there are competitions for that.

I know it is not valued around this forum, but I have 20 years of ballistics experience and can write custom ballistics apps for my phone. Although I have never shot in long range competitions I have shot a hell of a lot. Maybe 10K shots a year? This is my business after all.

I'm bootstrapping this whole process so a $10K entrance is not doable. Maybe an off the shelf gun competition to remove the expensive custom mods?

What would y'all recommend?

 

[Jerry Wick]

You would get better results by supplying a known competitve shooter with bullets. That way the high end equipment is already in place, as well as the knowledge to tune the bullets to suite the rifle.

 

[HappyHellfire]

You would get better results by supplying a known competitve shooter with bullets. That way the high end equipment is already in place, as well as the knowledge to tune the bullets to suite the rifle.

I've tried rather unsuccessfully. No one want to risk the time and effort with an unknown bullet.

 

[Rank Amateur]

So I was thinking about getting into a competition to prove that the aerospike bullets could be better. The question is which competition. Of course I want to pick the one that the aerospikes will do the very best. So here is what they have to offer:

They fly like regular bullets out of the muzzle but when the bullet slows to a certain speed (based upon the aerospike design) the drag dramatically drops. This means that the time of flight should be less for longer ranges and thus less wind error. They are also solid copper if there are competitions for that.

I know it is not valued around this forum, but I have 20 years of ballistics experience and can write custom ballistics apps for my phone. Although I have never shot in long range competitions I have shot a hell of a lot. Maybe 10K shots a year? This is my business after all.

I'm bootstrapping this whole process so a $10K entrance is not doable. Maybe an off the shelf gun competition to remove the expensive custom mods?

What would y'all recommend?

Set your sights low (so to speak). Find someone willing to take your bullets to a club-level F-Class match. If you're focused on 30 cal, then provide shooter enough to develop a load for standard .308Win. Depending on your needs, find someone competing in F-T/R at 500, 600, or 1,000 yds. Then, provide bullets to permit shooting of a complete 60 round match plus a dozen or so more for sighters. Club-level results aren't going to change anyone's life and there aren't titles or purses for these that will influence anyone. The results can be reported along with range conditions for your use. Shooters on this forum can easily evaluate performance from those results (you may want to know your shooter's recent prior scores and equipment for comparison).

 

[Jerry Wick]

I've tried rather unsuccessfully. No one want to risk the time and effort with an unknown bullet.

I guess what I'm saying is, just because you shoot a lot doesn't make you competitive, no disrespect intended.

Also, a factory class gun is not going to be the proper platform to prove your new desgns worth. That can only be done with a custom setup and someone that knows how to use it.

 

[tvaught]

Humble suggestions.

A partnership with a gun builder, who is expert in reamer design, and is familiar with the ELR discipline I think would go a long way, as you proceed down the iterative design/learning phase as to what works and what doesn't with your bullet and different rifling profiles.

A partnership with an accomplished ELR shooter, that already has a competitive eco system in place in terms of range access, rifle, reloading equipment, reloading knowledge, and is willing to partner with you as you go through this initial design/learning phase.

In short, a partnership with two key partners....an accomplished rifle builder expert on reamer design and 2nd an accomplished ELR shooter, allowing you to focus on bullet design vs interior ballistic rifle tuning, reloading, and marksmanship skills/fundamentals.

 

[HappyHellfire]

Great ideas but how to make the contacts? I'm not what you would call a people person by any means (stereotypical engineer). Maybe show up at some competitions and set up a table?

 

[DR1586]

Great ideas but how to make the contacts? I'm not what you would call a people person by any means (stereotypical engineer). Maybe show up at some competitions and set up a table?

I would put out a solicitation for sponsored shooters. Outline what you expect from them and what you are offering…just like a job description. Put it out in forums such as this or even social media groups. That will appeal to the masses and then be prepared to go through applications and see which shooter(s) best serve your needs and are willing to accept what you’ve offered.

 

[Rank Amateur]

Great ideas but how to make the contacts? I'm not what you would call a people person by any means (stereotypical engineer). Maybe show up at some competitions and set up a table?

Can't speak to the other suggestions, but re: club-level F-Class I'd suggest a lower profile. No table - most club matches don't have vendor tables, and most don't even have prize tables. Some/many clubs host monthly matches where the same 15-30 shooters tend to show up and compete for fun. Equipment ranges from factory rifles up to $10K custom rigs. Many/most matches are open to the public, even on private ranges. So, find a couple of clubs that host these matches relatively close to you, and just go. Perhaps just attend the first match to learn how it goes and meet some people. Come back and talk to those shooting .308 in F-T/R. See if any of them would be interested in shooting a match with your bullets (bullets supplied free). If you find someone willing, and they can develop/practice a bit with your bullets, you will be able to see how their results (with your bullets) compare to their preferred loads. If their scores increase significantly, you have motivational data. If no change in scores, the data will speak for themselves. For this reason, you probably want to find a good, but not top-tier shooter. (I.E., what benefit will you be able to see if the shooter scores 598-35x with your bullets, but normally shoots scores like that and sometimes cleans? Find someone shooting Master Classification scores normally, and have them shoot High-Master scores with your bullets and you're onto something.

 

[AlNyhus]

How are you currently testing the bullets?

 

[jelenko]

Great ideas but how to make the contacts? I'm not what you would call a people person by any means (stereotypical engineer). Maybe show up at some competitions and set up a table?

That sounds like a good approach. From my own experience and what you've already found, you might need more than one approach.

Another approach might be to find the organizers for PRS [maybe start with their home page] and for ELR. My perception is both of these disciplines rely heavily on being able to predict the flight of a bullet over long distances where the velocities decrease significantly from the muzzle.

I can't offer any specifics because I don't compete in either of these disciplines.

 

[jelenko]

Can't speak to the other suggestions, but re: club-level F-Class I'd suggest a lower profile. No table - most club matches don't have vendor tables, and most don't even have prize tables. Some/many clubs host monthly matches where the same 15-30 shooters tend to show up and compete for fun. Equipment ranges from factory rifles up to $10K custom rigs. Many/most matches are open to the public, even on private ranges. So, find a couple of clubs that host these matches relatively close to you, and just go. Perhaps just attend the first match to learn how it goes and meet some people. Come back and talk to those shooting .308 in F-T/R. See if any of them would be interested in shooting a match with your bullets (bullets supplied free). If you find someone willing, and they can develop/practice a bit with your bullets, you will be able to see how their results (with your bullets) compare to their preferred loads. If their scores increase significantly, you have motivational data. If no change in scores, the data will speak for themselves. For this reason, you probably want to find a good, but not top-tier shooter. (I.E., what benefit will you be able to see if the shooter scores 598-35x with your bullets, but normally shoots scores like that and sometimes cleans? Find someone shooting Master Classification scores normally, and have them shoot High-Master scores with your bullets and you're onto something.

Great idea. Have you spent any time in marketing?

 

[Rank Amateur]

Great idea. Have you spent any time in marketing?

Grin, no, but I've spent almost 50 years reviewing Marketing materials and working with Marketing teams to tone down their claims until they could be viewed as true (grin again).

 

[HappyHellfire]

How are you currently testing the bullets?

For live fire I'm doing bullet characterization and short range accuracy (100 yards). Bullet characterization is using a short range doppler radar to measure the drag coefficient. I load up about 100 at a time and vary the powder to get the desired Mach number. Accuracy is just 5 shot groups at 100 yards.

I don't do the long range accuracy testing that is popular on this site. I don't have the equipment or facilities for it.

 

[R.Morehouse]

Without a pocket full of dough to get your own equipment and do your own testing, you may be pissing into the wind. If you did find a knowledgeable " qualified" shooter, you would still have to buy the chambered barrels, powder, primers,,,,,and the list gets much longer from there. Do your own testing with your own equipment and your own bullets, pretty much like every other buller maker out there does. If you have someone else in the mix, at that point I guess you would have an employee. Best of luck......

Regards
Rick

 

[AlNyhus]

For live fire I'm doing bullet characterization and short range accuracy (100 yards). Bullet characterization is using a short range doppler radar to measure the drag coefficient. I load up about 100 at a time and vary the powder to get the desired Mach number. Accuracy is just 5 shot groups at 100 yards.

If the accuracy is there at 100, it shouldn't be much of deal.to simply partner with a reliable shooter and supply the bullets. Do the twist requirements of the bullets allow for the use of currently used twist rates?

I don't do the long range accuracy testing that is popular on this site.

Not all of the interest here is in long range accuracy. If your bullets shoot small at 100-300, that's a good platform to build on.

 

[TTE]

I've tried rather unsuccessfully. No one want to risk the time and effort with an unknown bullet.

That is not an accurate statement

 

[HappyHellfire]

That is not an accurate statement

Is that you volunteering?

 

[TylerFromMS]

Send me 200 of the 6.5s and I’ll shoot them around September/october out of a proven 6.5x47 barrel in a real race gun- front rest/rear bags, all that shit- at 600. I’ll need 100 for load dev- powder, neck tension, seating depth. The other 100 I’ll shoot at local matches. You’ll get all the load data/velo numbers/shotmarker data. If I need a special seating stem send it- currently have Wilson VLD stem in an inline seater. Starting points for either Varget or H4350 is a bonus.

 

[HappyHellfire]

Send me 200 of the 6.5s and I’ll shoot them around September/october out of a proven 6.5x47 barrel in a real race gun- front rest/rear bags, all that shit- at 600. I’ll need 100 for load dev- powder, neck tension, seating depth. The other 100 I’ll shoot at local matches. You’ll get all the load data/velo numbers/shotmarker data. If I need a special seating stem send it- currently have Wilson VLD stem in an inline seater. Starting points for either Varget or H4350 is a bonus.

Let me doublecheck the SAAMI standard for the 6.5x47 and if they are good I'll send them. I had another guy shoot some out of his 6.5x47 but didn't get any accuracy data yet.

Thanks.