6.5 CM Load Development...Next Steps??

[Mark71]

Wanted to post my results and get some opinions on moving forward based the load development results I got.

Barrel: 26" Krieger 7.5 twist
Powder: H4350
Primer: Federal 210 LR
Brass: Starline (virgin)
Bullet: 140 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip seated 0.020" off the lands.

New rifle with about 100 rounds through the tube. The first two targets below were shot on the same day.

Group# / charge weight / avg velocity / ES / SD
#1 - Fouling shots
#2 / 40.0 / 2666 / 36 / 15
#3 / 40.3 / 2675 / 4 / 2
#4 / 40.6 / 2690 / 12 / 6
#5 / 40.9 / 2714 / 18 / 8
#6 / 41.2 / 2727 / 5 / 2



Group# / charge weight / avg velocity / ES / SD
#1 / 41.5 / 2740 / 13 / 6
#2 / 41.8 / 2756 / 5 / 2
#3 / 42.1 / 2782 / 7 / 3



Based on what I saw at 41.8 and 42.1 I felt like I was coming into another node so I loaded up a couple of higher charge weights and shot them a couple of days later which is shown on the target below.

Group# / charge weight / avg velocity / ES / SD
#1 / 42.4 / 2791 / 20 / 9
#2 / 42.7 / 2801 / 28 / 13



The following is the velocity graph for all charge weights.


I really like the group I got from the 42.7 charge and it showed no pressure signs, but I'm concerned about running this hot with regard to barrel life and brass life.

The POI for charges 41.5 & 41.8 are very similar and knowing somewhere around 41.5 is usually a node I am leaning towards loading 3 rounds each of 41.6, 41.7 and 41.8 again to see how they compare. Pick the best out of these three and move onto seating depth testing.

Wanted to throw this out there and get some feedback on how others would move forward.

Thanks in advance for the feedback.

 

[whatsupdoc]

Load 10 rounds each of 41.5 41.8 and 42.2 shoot one 5 round group for each load
then do it again.

 

[David Christian]

IMO, I would wait until I had 200 rounds on the barrel to see where it settles in before fine tuning a powder charge. 2,800 fps speed in a 26” barrel is definitiely shooting the high high node. I would think something closer to 2700 fps would be better and give better brass and barrel life.

Edited: I would use these early rounds to fireform my brass. I don’t do any testing on virgin brass.

 

[JFrank]

What’s wrong with 40.6 ?

 

[ShtrRdy]

Wanted to post my results and get some opinions on moving forward based the load development results I got.

Barrel: 26" Krieger 7.5 twist
Powder: H4350
Primer: Federal 210 LR
Brass: Starline (virgin)
Bullet: 140 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip seated 0.020" off the lands.

New rifle with about 100 rounds through the tube. The first two targets below were shot on the same day.

Group# / charge weight / avg velocity / ES / SD
#1 - Fouling shots
#2 / 40.0 / 2666 / 36 / 15
#3 / 40.3 / 2675 / 4 / 2
#4 / 40.6 / 2690 / 12 / 6
#5 / 40.9 / 2714 / 18 / 8
#6 / 41.2 / 2727 / 5 / 2

View attachment 1571057

Group# / charge weight / avg velocity / ES / SD
#1 / 41.5 / 2740 / 13 / 6
#2 / 41.8 / 2756 / 5 / 2
#3 / 42.1 / 2782 / 7 / 3

View attachment 1571058

Based on what I saw at 41.8 and 42.1 I felt like I was coming into another node so I loaded up a couple of higher charge weights and shot them a couple of days later which is shown on the target below.

Group# / charge weight / avg velocity / ES / SD
#1 / 42.4 / 2791 / 20 / 9
#2 / 42.7 / 2801 / 28 / 13

View attachment 1571060

The following is the velocity graph for all charge weights.

View attachment 1571061
I really like the group I got from the 42.7 charge and it showed no pressure signs, but I'm concerned about running this hot with regard to barrel life and brass life.

The POI for charges 41.5 & 41.8 are very similar and knowing somewhere around 41.5 is usually a node I am leaning towards loading 3 rounds each of 41.6, 41.7 and 41.8 again to see how they compare. Pick the best out of these three and move onto seating depth testing.

Wanted to throw this out there and get some feedback on how others would move forward.

Thanks in advance for the feedback.

I like what you're thinking.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

What’s wrong with 40.6 ?

I like Jim’s thoughts. Play with the seating depth on that charge.

 

[DiRTY DOG]

Where was it 12 C?! Today it was 115 F here...

 

[drop_point]

Since its a Nosler Ballistic tip, seems like its a hunting rifle and not a competition rifle. Any of the loads will work just fine for killing critters. Save the components chasing a perfect load. By the numbers, go somewhere moderate to give you temperature tolerance. 41.2 seemed to have good speed and numbers. Your data set is too small to draw accuracy conclusions anyway.

 

[Mark71]

Load 10 rounds each of 41.5 41.8 and 42.2 shoot one 5 round group for each load
then do it again.

Thanks. Think I'll load these up tonight and give this a try this weekend.

IMO, I would wait until I had 200 rounds on the barrel to see where it settles in before fine tuning a powder charge. 2,800 fps speed in a 26” barrel is definitiely shooting the high high node. I would think something closer to 2700 fps would be better and give better brass and barrel life.

Edited: I would use these early rounds to fireform my brass. I don’t do any testing on virgin brass.

I agree about the brass and barrel life. Although I liked the group at 42.7 I feel the sacrifice to the barrel and brass isn't worth it. At this point I'm just getting a feel for what the gun might like and get something close to paly around with.

 

[Mark71]

What’s wrong with 40.6 ?

I REALLY liked this group! Guess I get caught up in the velocity thing sometimes and was hoping to be in that 2700 - 2750 range. That being said, 50 fps doesn't make a huge elevation difference...give or take 0.2 mil at 500 and about 0.7 at 1000.

 

[Ryan66]

I like your idea of trying again the 41.5-41.8 area. I’ve also heard of many 6.5 creed shooters work with a lower node around 40.6 like you discovered too. Animals or targets to most distances won’t notice.

At the same time of testing that again, for fun, I’d also try a few other seating depths in coarse adjustments (like the Berger bullet seating method suggestions) with 41.5gr. Those ballistic tips may do well with a more significant jump and you might get some good feedback from the target on what direction to head next.
I understand that is less of a scientific method and .020 off is a great starting point … I just have surprised myself with results I have found doing this.

 

[Mark71]

Where was it 12 C?! Today it was 115 F here...

LOL... 6 am in northern Alberta...although it did get up to 33 the last couple days. I think I'd die at 115. LOL

 

[Mark71]

Since its a Nosler Ballistic tip, seems like its a hunting rifle and not a competition rifle. Any of the loads will work just fine for killing critters. Save the components chasing a perfect load. By the numbers, go somewhere moderate to give you temperature tolerance. 41.2 seemed to have good speed and numbers. Your data set is too small to draw accuracy conclusions anyway.

It's actually set up to run as a competition rig. MTU contour in a foundation stock. The only reason I started with ballistic tips is because I had them on hand, wanted to fireform brass, let the barrel break in a little more and get a feel for what the gun likes with a cheaper bullet. I have some Sierra Matchkings and Berger's that I plan on running when I get serious.

Flawed logic maybe, but I made it make sense in my brain.

 

[drop_point]

It's actually set up to run as a competition rig. MTU contour in a foundation stock. The only reason I started with ballistic tips is because I had them on hand, wanted to fireform brass, let the barrel break in a little more and get a feel for what the gun likes with a cheaper bullet. I have some Sierra Matchkings and Berger's that I plan on running when I get serious.

Flawed logic maybe, but I made it make sense in my brain.

I get using what you got, but what you learn with the BTs may not really transfer over to the next bullet.

 

[Mark71]

I like your idea of trying again the 41.5-41.8 area. I’ve also heard of many 6.5 creed shooters work with a lower node around 40.6 like you discovered too. Animals or targets to most distances won’t notice.

At the same time of testing that again, for fun, I’d also try a few other seating depths in coarse adjustments (like the Berger bullet seating method suggestions) with 41.5gr. Those ballistic tips may do well with a more significant jump and you might get some good feedback from the target on what direction to head next.
I understand that is less of a scientific method and .020 off is a great starting point … I just have surprised myself with results I have found doing this.

Agreed. I have a 300 WM that I started at 0.020 off the lands and was getting groups in the 1.0 - 1.2 MOA range. Backed the seating depth off by 0.150 (Remington throats are landing strips LOL) and the groups dropped to 0.5 MOA.

 

[Mark71]

I get using what you got, but what you learn with the BTs may not really transfer over to the next bullet.

Very true. I may bust into those Sierra's just to see what a better quality bullet looks like through this thing and run the 40.6 charge with the BT's for fireforming and general plinking.

First custom rifle so I'm wading my way through this while still learning the nuances of long range shooting, calling wind, etc, etc. I'm enjoying the process and having a setup that I know can out shoot me, so if something isn't working I KNOW it's the trigger nut and not the rifle.

So many decisions...so few components. LOL

 

[JFrank]

I REALLY liked this group! Guess I get caught up in the velocity thing sometimes and was hoping to be in that 2700 - 2750 range. That being said, 50 fps doesn't make a huge elevation difference...give or take 0.2 mil at 500 and about 0.7 at 1000.

There appears to be another node about 3% higher at 41.7 as well. They need to repeat though, also test a few different primers.

 

[Bc'z]

Agreed. I have a 300 WM that I started at 0.020 off the lands and was getting groups in the 1.0 - 1.2 MOA range. Backed the seating depth off by 0.150 (Remington throats are landing strips LOL) and the groups dropped to 0.5 MOA.

Try this load 20 rounds of 40.6 all just at touch.
Take press and comparator to range with notebook.
Do this @ 200 yards
Shoot 2. Did they touch? If not push bullet in .003 deeper shoot 2 more.
Once bullets start going into 1 hole it can be ragged but 1 hole seat more to that depth and confirm seating, now give it the gas.
Here's an example the 2 identical groups on top spot was 2 clicks right to confirm it wasn't a fluke, next spot down I pushed bullet .003 deeper, hole got smaller, continue on and you'll see it blow out and scatter and come back together again.

 

[Mark71]

There appears to be another node about 3% higher at 41.7 as well. They need to repeat though, also test a few different primers.

Agreed. I think the 41.6 - 41.8 area is where the next node is up from 40.6. I'm gonna play around in that area a little more and see what I can find. If it's repeatable I'll play with seating depth going slightly deeper to see if things tighten up.

 

[Mark71]

Try this load 20 rounds of 40.6 all just at touch.
Take press and comparator to range with notebook.
Do this @ 200 yards
Shoot 2. Did they touch? If not push bullet in .003 deeper shoot 2 more.
Once bullets start going into 1 hole it can be ragged but 1 hole seat more to that depth and confirm seating, now give it the gas.
Here's an example the 2 identical groups on top spot was 2 clicks right to confirm it wasn't a fluke, next spot down I pushed bullet .003 deeper, hole got smaller, continue on and you'll see it blow out and scatter and come back together again.View attachment 1571245

Thanks for the feedback. I think I'm gonna play around in the 41.6 - 41.8 area, settle on a charge if they look promising and then try seating slightly deeper.