Extraction Issues w/Cooper 204

[glide]

Before I see a gunsmith, any ideas will help. Two different Cooper 204s. One with a new barrel from Cooper a few years ago. 10 rounds shot. Ran another 30 or so just chambering and ejecting to check some brass. After those 30 it would not extract new brass, old brass or factory loaded. Tried a new extractor from Sun Dog and it still didn't extract. Just so happens the bolts will interchange. The bolt that doesn't extract in the correct action but will extract in the other action. But neither will extract in the problem action. Brass and factory loaded will fall from action but not extract. A burr in the action? This isn't anything that I'm in a hurry to correct. Thanks.

 

[SBS]

Look at your chamber with a borescope to see if anything got in there and remained from chambering the 30 rounds

 

[glide]

My BIL has a buddy that has one, I will hit him it. Thanks.,

 

[Gabe22BR]

So we’re exchanging brass between chambers?

 

[chuckshooter]

Check headspace, cooper near the end had a lot of issues. The simplest way to check it, is with Scotch tape. Clean the bottom of a case . put on one piece of Scotch tape, trim with razor knife to fit. check the fit in the Chamber. Repeat this over and over again until you cannot close the bolt. Keep track of how many pieces of Scotch tape in each chamber. . In a good chamber , one maybe two pieces of scotch tape depending on how the brass was sized. It's the redneck headspace gauge method. This is assuming you don't have a headspasce gauge.

 

[glide]

All brass was full length sized so supposedly in will fit in any chamber, correct? I will try the scotch tape.

 

[chuckshooter]

As you said in the 1st post, it fits in both chambers , however if the one chamber is too long, the case is sliding forward in the chamber not allowing the extractor to slip over the rim of the case. Thus no extraction. If you angle the case into the bolt and then close the bolt, I'll bet it extracts.

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

Sounds like a long chamber. Try some brass fired in the other gun, don't resize just try in fired condition. The bolt/extractor is pushing the case in but without the chamber shoulder at the right spot, case moves in further, bolt stops before extractor can jump over the rim.


Frank

 

[DaveTooley]

Try pushing the bolt forward on the brass that won't extract. My guess is the extractor will snap over the rim and extract properly.

 

[glide]

I should be able to try everything today. Thanks.

 

[RGRobinett]

Before I see a gunsmith, any ideas will help. Two different Cooper 204s. One with a new barrel from Cooper a few years ago. 10 rounds shot. Ran another 30 or so just chambering and ejecting to check some brass. After those 30 it would not extract new brass, old brass or factory loaded. Tried a new extractor from Sun Dog and it still didn't extract. Just so happens the bolts will interchange. The bolt that doesn't extract in the correct action but will extract in the other action. But neither will extract in the problem action. Brass and factory loaded will fall from action but not extract. A burr in the action? This isn't anything that I'm in a hurry to correct. Thanks.

Are "extraction" (removing the case from the chamber) & ejection being interchanged/confused? Fall out the ejection port following extraction from chamber, or, fall out of chamber following bolt removal and standing rifle on butt? Pushing a, "stuck", loaded round out of the chamber, using a rod, is unsafe!
Maybe I'm just, "splitting frog hairs" again. RG

 

[glide]

The bolt will not extract the brass from the action, but it will fall out not using a rod.

 

[glide]

Ok, I will try to explain what i have tried. 7 pieces of scotch tape bolt would still lock up. I have a video but can't get it to load. Tried the brass with 7 pieces in the other action, bolt would not lock but it did extract and eject. I did notice in the issues rifle, without brass in the chamber the bolt would easily close. With a piece of brass in the chamber it needs pushed probably the last 1/16 or 1/8 forward to close bolt. If I add the brass under the extractor and close the bolt it does extract. I'm attaching pictures of the brass covered with marker. I can see a mark at the neck and one that is faint, maybe from extractor. Pictures aren't great. Bore scope next week sometime.

 

[chuckshooter]

I think you have your answer, at 7 pieces (depending on how thick your scotch is) anywhere from .010 to .014. the difference between my go gauge and my no go is plus .003 . you stopped at 7, but it would be nice to know how many pieces before the bolt won't close in each rifle. should be 1 to 3 in the good rifle. again this is all about creating a reference between the 2 rifles as there are too many other unknowns and people trying to help will just be guessing. that includes me

 

[danny]

Check headspace, cooper near the end had a lot of issues. The simplest way to check it, is with Scotch tape. Clean the bottom of a case . put on one piece of Scotch tape, trim with razor knife to fit. check the fit in the Chamber. Repeat this over and over again until you cannot close the bolt. Keep track of how many pieces of Scotch tape in each chamber. . In a good chamber , one maybe two pieces of scotch tape depending on how the brass was sized. It's the redneck headspace gauge method. This is assuming you don't have a headspasce gauge.

What time period is "near the end"?

Danny

 

[jxb]

"10 rounds shot. Ran another 30 or so just chambering and ejecting to check some brass. After those 30 it would not extract new brass, old brass or factory loaded."

So it worked fine for 30 brass, then suddenly didn't. Are you sure? Pretty sure that chamber didn't grow between 30 and 31. This is a weird one. You also said both bolts extract ok from good rifle and neither from broke rifle and assuming you tested in both with same pieces of brass doesn't appear bolt related. The barrel is tight on the action right? I know it sounds silly, but loose enough and you'd have enough gap between end of bolt and barrel it wouldn't click over the rim.

 

[glide]

I won't be able to work with the other rifle with tape until the weekend. Unless I get my granddaughter to help with some chores. She is as good as it gets! Cooper did the barrel 2.5 years ago. I agree, it didnt grow. The same brass was tested in both actions. I will be able to see a gap if there is one with the bore scope next week? I've never seen one or results in person.

There are no dumb questions, right? If we find nothing in the action after bore scoping it will need head spaced again? Would re-barrel work if it's not the action? I have picked it what little I know on this site. Reloading now for a couple years but still don't do much. BIL usually get a phone call when I start on anything. Sorry you guys are racking your brains but I'm glad I have someone to share my pain!

 

[Gabe22BR]

Ya just got 2 different headspace on same chambers on 2 rifles
Brass isn’t interchangeable between them-

The bolts in each rifle are serial numbered to that action body & aren’t interchangeable- they are hand fit to that particular action- yes it fits- the lug contact and bolt facing, are for each action are different.
Headspace is in the barrel, the smith who chambered it might have used a newer reamer, or set headspace on Fri.. possibly Mon…or set it to a different go gauge-

 

[Gabe22BR]

I pulled my barrel off and had it chambered to another cartridge ( 20-221AI) it’s a Ackley Improved 20VT …

 

[glide]

I pulled my barrel off and had it chambered to another cartridge ( 20-221AI) it’s a Ackley Improved 20VT …

OK, that's where I'm clueless! Do you use the same barrel? The action can fit a 20 or 22 caliber? Does the bolt need any work? Please school me.