Subsonic 223

[9mmAnimal]

I'm doing a little research, I want to load a subsonic 223,what I've been reading is using hodgdon tite group 3.8 grains, been loading my AR 223 a while 21 grains accurate 2015, shoots great but using pistol powder for my 223 feels wrong, even 3.8 grains??? Is pistol powder ok ?

 

[jcm800]

Titegroup will not produce enough gas to cycle a semi.
It is a great powder for reduced loads in small / med (308) cases.... easily my favourite.
Low ES/SD and not position sensitive.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Isn't a subsonic 223 a .22LR? Just askin'

 

[Homerange]

Isn't a subsonic 223 a .22LR? Just askin'

No.
22 LR is supersonic.

 

[Mikey_P]

No.
22 LR is supersonic.

Some is, some isn't... Virtually all of your 22 LR match ammo has a velocity of 1040 - 1085 fps, making it subsonic. Can't comment on the OP's question of subsonic .223, unfortunately..

 

[Oso]

Since you asked about Titegroup, here's some loaded in a 308 w/125 tnt.
Loaded more 7.4 gr. to test. Had a zero going untill I pulled one. All 5 shots 50 yds.
Any of them would work fine for short range headshots on pests.

Anytime your loading very light loads start at the upper charge weight and work down while checking velocity, especially with jacketed bullets. You really don't want to stick one in the barrel.
View attachment 1566443

Those are some nice results. The 125 TNT is a great little bullet for the price.

Typically, when available on the shelf, TrailBoss is favored for its case fill capability from its bulky powder characteristic. This is especially true in the case of a subsonic load in a 308. I developed a "powder puff" load for a 38Spl (160gr bullet at 680fps) using 3.1gr Titegroup. The case fill in the 38spl was negligible (15%) and presents a risk of a double charge. The other potential issue from the minimal case fill was potential for inconsistent performance from flashovers or multiple ignitions. Both Titegroup and Bulleye were almost identical in performance at almost identical charge weights (within 0.2gr).

Compared to my reduced load 38Spl, your TiteGroup load is 2.5x the powder charge but the difference in case volume is approaching 4x greater. Rough math says this is only a 10% case fill in the .308. From cartridge to cartridge there is enough empty space and case length that the powder can pool-up at either end or spread out inconsistently across the entire bottom of the case floor.

I am not doubting or bashing your ability or target. You have caught my curiosity. I'm just a bit surprised that you are still obtaining low ES/SD and minimal effect of position sensitivity. This is counter to what most experience. Have you tested the load by rough handling them similar to as if in the field. Bouncing each cartridge around so that from shot to shot the powder could be distributed unpredictably? What would this "field" group in less than ideal conditions look like?

 

[jsn]

Hodgdon has had subsonic rifle data on its website for some time. Titegroup is one of the few powders they list loads for in 223 rem, from 3.1gr to 5.2gr. Accurate No 2 is the other pistol powder they list loads for, and Clays is a shotgun/pistol powder they list loads for as well.

 

[WV Hitman]

SSK Industries made me a Contender with a .300 Whisper & .223 barrel. I've shot both with only suppressed loads for over 30 years. I use only Unique in the .223 & WW296 in the Whisper. Both have worked fine. Accuracy is very good. Never saw a need to work with any newer powders since these do extremely well. Never had a problem with the "less than bulky" loads.

 

[Jonnyofalltrades]

I usually get great results from Green Dot, with no fillers and no position sensitivity, at least in .223.
Can't remember the charge right off the top, but it wasn't quite subsonic. I didn't see the need, as my stupid dictatorship of a government won't let me have a suppressor anyway.
And yeah, start high and work your way down. DON'T STICK A BULLET IN YOUR BARREL!(Don't ask how I learned that).

 

[Oso]

Any powder can be used for a reduced load... subsonic. The most common powders used for subsonic load are pistol powders with their fast burn rate, and also shotgun powders. Take a look at powders used for plinking loads on large caliber pistol cartridges, such as 44 mag, and you get a good starting list. I tend to prefer pistol powders because of how much cleaner they burn (less residue) as compared to shotgun powders. Although, sometimes you just have to use what you got, and my stash of Clays and Red Dot isn't going away on its own

The biggest challenge with subsonic loads is getting consistent performance. This is why I was so curious and impressed with JCM800's target! It is more difficult perfecting subsonic loads for cartridges with large case volume, such as a 308. The 300BO & 300 Whisper are right-sized .30 cartridges for subsonic with +95% case fill with 9gr-10gr H110/W296 after taking into account the additional case volume reduction that occurs when a +200gr projectile is stuffed deep into the 300BO case. This is easy.

.223/5.56 only has approx. 50% of the case volume of a 308 so it should be a bit easier to load for subsonic.

 

[Hino895]

I load 4.5gr of clays and a SMK 77 gr bullet for right around 1000 fps.
But it won’t cycle a AR15.

 

[markm87]

I think I ran Trailboss in the past. But I lost interest in manually cycling the AR after about 10 rounds.

 

[Iowa Fox]

I have fiddled around with light loads in the 223 for my bolt guns, Contenders and Encore. I used my own cast bullets from 37-65 gr lubed in alox. I tried all sorts of powder I had on hand Red Dot, 700x, Bullseye, I would load down sometimes until I stuck one then bump up. It was nothing more than experimentation. Primer prices have gotten too high and my time is a consideration also so I just use a suppressed 22 LR. Quiets are pretty quiet suppressed. My ARs are work horses are have to run. I;m not sure if we will ever see Trail Boss again so I'm saving every little cheerio for my suppressed blackie.

 

[jds holler]

Since this is kind of an AR thread, Imma gonna give a shout about at the brass catcher I just picked up on EBay the other day. I LOVE THIS THING!!
Even for manual operation like your talking with reduced loads, it would be handy. No more crawling around looking for those particular brass that you've prepped for your personal rifle. This has improved my enjoyment of my AR by a bunch. Fifteen bucks on EBay, with free shipping. jd

 

[Tempest]

No.
22 LR is supersonic.

The best match grade .22 (Lapua, Eley etc) is subsonic.

 

[Paul's Black Rifles]

I think I ran Trailboss in the past. But I lost interest in manually cycling the AR after about 10 rounds.

I bet an adjustable gas block and opening up your gas port would solve the issue. It would be wise to have a replacement barrel on hand in case you can't adjust the gas block back to normal gas flow.

Paul

 

[Iowa Fox]

SSK Industries made me a Contender with a .300 Whisper & .223 barrel. I've shot both with only suppressed loads for over 30 years. I use only Unique in the .223 & WW296 in the Whisper. Both have worked fine. Accuracy is very good. Never saw a need to work with any newer powders since these do extremely well. Never had a problem with the "less than bulky" loads.

Doc are you filling deer cull tags again this year?

 

[WV Hitman]

Yes, this is "summer deer season". Got in the mid 20s already. Using .375/.284, .325 WSM, 6.5/.284, .338 Mag JDJ-none suppressed. But going to a place tonight where the Whisper will be #1. Killed a really nice 8 pt. with the Whisper 2 years ago with a 220 gr. Sierra RN in a driving rain/wind storm at 240 yds. Dropped.
The best suppressed bullets in the Whisper/BO are the 220 RN & 186 gr. Lehigh Fracturing HP. They are the only 2 bullets that have dropped deer in 98% of my 120+ suppressed kills.
The newer Horn. suppressed bullets were disappointing as well as other lighter .30 cal. bullets. The Lehigh works so well because of the skived nose (4 fragments), the .17 cal. bullet in the HP, and the solid base. You get 6 tracks of damage. A "certain govt. agency" bough 200,000 of these for "special work".
I was a tester for Lehigh until Wilson bought them. The 186 gave the best results of all their suppressed bullets.

 

[Zero333]

You're gonna need a very short barrel,... like a 12" shooting 95 smk @ 2.260" coal. Adjustable gas block and Start at 6 gr of Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star and work your way down to 5 gr. or less if it's still too fast.

I can't see any other combination that will produce 223 subs. A shorter 8" or 9" barrel would be even better. With the 8" or 9" barrel I would start with 7 gr N32C Tin Star and work down to 6 gr.

Anything else is a pipe dream or single shot AR

You will also need a 6.5" to 7" barrel twist.

If you have a 16" barrel I wouldn't even bother.

 

[GotRDid]