Belly Benchrester
Silver $$ Contributor
we can afford to do this in a safe manner at my club due to the fact we have 30 target frames. Spacing our shooters out will really mitigate this problem.
I'd like to see a new F class Category. "F-TAC"
- Thread starter Belly Benchrester
- Start date
I should add to my earlier post re my club's practices, that each of the four classes is in a separate class within the annual PSSA F-Class northern championship with posted results and points allocations split by class and with their own prizes / medals for the top three in each class at the year's end.
Simples - keep the sub-classes separate on squadding so that whilst sometimes with another class on the same relay, your partner is always in your class, and those on the lanes on either side probably are too.
Simples - keep the sub-classes separate on squadding so that whilst sometimes with another class on the same relay, your partner is always in your class, and those on the lanes on either side probably are too.
If people are shooting PRS, they have the option of using a brake. Being able to spot bullet strike is a real plus there. Not so in "F". I don't honestly care, one way or the other, but others do.
If I want to shoot in a given discipline, I check the rules and build a rifle which falls within them. Easy peasy. WH
drop_point
Silver $$ Contributor
Yeah, its not advantage in F-Class. But if a guy has one rifle, it would give him multiple disciplines he could use the one rifle in rather than spending thousands of dollars on a second rifle. This is to increase shooter participation.
What the OP is talking about is creating a new discipline in F class. F-Class rules have evolved. The only pushback against a brake is that nobody wants to shoot next to one on bare ground. There are solutions as posted above.
I think the key thing to remember here is if you want to attract younger shooters and keep the sport alive it needs to be affordable. What with potential tuition fees, mortgage/rent, a young family etc having more than one quality rifle is unlikely.
I'm not young and I've decided to concentrate on one really good fullbore rifle and ancillaries rather than two or three average ones. I have other rimfire and pistol calibres and there is only so much money to go around.
I'm all for anything that encourages more participation.
I'm not young and I've decided to concentrate on one really good fullbore rifle and ancillaries rather than two or three average ones. I have other rimfire and pistol calibres and there is only so much money to go around.
I'm all for anything that encourages more participation.
drop_point
Silver $$ Contributor
I'm a father of twin six-year-olds and a baby. I'm not rich, but I'm fortunate enough to have a PRS rifle, an F-Class rifle, and a custom hunting rifle. However, my F-Class rifle is going to be down soon waiting on a barrel. I'm glad the local club has an outlaw "varmint/tactical" class where I can shoot my PRS rifle or my hunting rifle.
Just so. All of our F-Military entrants shoot McQueens (sniper comp with military head targets given 5-sec random exposures across small 'windows' in a hardboard 'wall'; Tactical and/or Practical Rifle comps; and a few are into PRS comps, but we don't have many of them in our region. A few factory Ruger Precision Rifles aside, they are nearly all custom-built, and very good / expensive ones too. Tell them that they must conform to standard ICFRA rules and they won't enter F events, end of story. Both shooting generally and clubs will be worse off for that.
Many of our F-Military guys are using scopes that cost well over $2,000 US. They often shoot in threes, never mind the usual pairs and are jammed together on the firing points. Somehow, their scopes avoid being peppered and damaged by their neighbours' brakes. I'd say these guys (and some girls) are generally spending WAY over what us F-Class shooters do on glass, or would if it weren't that there are a few rich 'Effers' around with the latest and highest spec March models that are in similar price brackets.
It seems to me that many F-Class participants' posts in this thread show signs of attitudes just like those of some sling shooters in the early days of F-Class looking to exclude the newcomers, not welcome them and find ways to accommodate them.
As long as they shoot on their own relay, and I do not have to sit and score for them while they shoot, I say go for it. Will be happy to see them at the range.
Why a division of F-Class though? Why not something completely different since that is what it would be anyway? F-Class has enough issues as it is. We don't need any more complications than we already have.
drop_point
Silver $$ Contributor
Well, if you're using the same scoring, the same ranges, the same targets, why not? Seems a lot of clubs are already doing an outlaw version of it as is.
I used to shoot quite a bit of USPSA years ago. The reason why USPSA overtook IDPA was because IDPA didn't evolve. USPSA came up with new divisions to meet what the public wanted. Then a new board started taking hard stances, one of which was appendix carry. IDPA started allowing appendix carry, optics, etc and the tables turned. USPSA has been on the struggle bus ever since, though they are opening up a bit and evolving finally.
ronsatspokane
Gold $$ Contributor
This is the answer in the short term. At Montana Jamey runs a hunter/tactical class along with F Class. They are squaded at the end of the firing line but shoot at the same time FTR and F Open shooters are shooting. It's a bit more primitive than F-Practical (which looks too close to FTR to me). The folks who participate in it are running thinner profile barrels with and without brakes and I think he allows suppressors. Not sure on the last point. These are effectively hunting rifles. The issue is that the thinner profile barrels can't handle 15 or 20 round strings of fire so the string of fire is different. He also has them come off the gun during the string of fire. I think he was running 5 rounds then stand up. Back to prone and more rounds down range. Far more practical than F Practical and a good idea. It attracts people who hunt and shoot but will likely never build a rifle costing north of 6 or 7 grand.
If more match directors got involved in this there could be a defacto new category of F Class established.
Why not call it PRS prone? A lot closer to the actual discipline. And are guys shooting PRS rifles with MRAD scopes going to want to shoot on F-Class targets at 600 and 1000 yards?
And, there should be fewer complaints about muzzle brakes too.
Muzzle brakes are great for the shooter not so much for folks along side them. My first experience with the Browning Boss when it first came out was when the shooter next to me fired it blew my spotting scope off my bench. Firing prone on a none paved range showers all around the shooter with dust etc. Having said that I like the idea of a barrier of some sort between the brake guys and everyone else. Should be easy to manage and increase attendance. I am also amused by folks using a rest that costs more than another competitor's complete rig. Anything that increases participation in this day and age should be considered.
jxb
Gold $$ Contributor
Don't they do prone at PRS matches?
Since these are at ranges, I'd call it something like PRS-R PRS style and R for at a range.
As for MRAD, I'm not sure why it matters. If they have a .1 mil they could use a hold-off if needed or simply buy a .05 mil scope if they think they need finer adjustments. Kinda like 1/8 moa does.
As for brakes, I wouldn't shoot next to someone with one in a match. It's bad enough when I'm at the range just working up loads. I'd bet many of them have a can for their PRS rifle or would be happy to get one and while mine doesn't reduce recoil as much as a good brake, it's night and day better than without anything. Recoil is substantially reduced with a can over nothing.
I get so many comments at the range how nice it is to shoot next to folks using cans. On good days everyone with cans is grouped together on the line, a nice time for sure.
Sandstorm
Gold $$ Contributor
I shoot F-open and we had a club Match like we do every month. We had a couple fellows shooting
AR rifles and a PRS shooter. If they use breaks they are at the far end of the range. We all shoot the F-open
Targets and Sling targets as appropriate for discipline and everyone has a good time. No issues here. Yes we have TR and Sling shooters as well. Who ever shows up is welcome.
AR rifles and a PRS shooter. If they use breaks they are at the far end of the range. We all shoot the F-open
Targets and Sling targets as appropriate for discipline and everyone has a good time. No issues here. Yes we have TR and Sling shooters as well. Who ever shows up is welcome.
Average joe
Gold $$ Contributor
If you are the match director, you should already be doing this..... I have allowed them for years, and shot several places that have allowed them.... just segregate them to one end of the line.
If you are calling for the nra to sanction them, I guess that would be a different matter.....
It would be difficult to manage at a regional or national event.
Having shot next to brakes, and scored between them, they can be very rude!
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
F class is pretty successful. Theres not a lot of fighting or issues going on. Theres one main sanctioning body and one set of rules. Dont take that for granted. That really legitimizes the sport. Id be really careful about changing such a good thing. I think as a match director you should be able to allow guys to shoot no matter what. They cant win if the rifles are not legal but they should still be able to shoot. The tac and sporter classes have been done. They just never have taken off. I dont know why. Id just try to put the guys that want to try it at the end of the line to disrupt others as little as possible. But a whole new class, as much as I love the idea, I think will fizzle out. Its just been done enough to know that.
mike mccormick
Silver $$ Contributor
They can shoot PRS then. Muzzle brakes have no place on a firing line
Sandstorm
Gold $$ Contributor
The guys that show up with the factory stuff....get either hooked rather quickly and build a custom,
or they continue shooting what they brung for a time...and discover its too much work for them to try and be competitive with reloading and practice that they do fizzle out, however there are a few every year that are forever addicted hook line and sinker...sort of an obsession so to speak.....them's the super competiors that
well have always competed at something their whole lives. Its just not been shooting before.
or they continue shooting what they brung for a time...and discover its too much work for them to try and be competitive with reloading and practice that they do fizzle out, however there are a few every year that are forever addicted hook line and sinker...sort of an obsession so to speak.....them's the super competiors that
well have always competed at something their whole lives. Its just not been shooting before.
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