I'd like to see a new F class Category. "F-TAC"

[mattri]

All joking aside I am 100% in support of getting more ppl on the lines and realistically this is the direction the newer/younger shooters are leaning but the brakes are going to be an issue every step of the way. I don't like being around them even when I'm not shooting.

 

[urbanrifleman]

As a newer match director there has been many new competitors reach out to me that have rifles with muzzle breaks, foldable bipods and squeeze bags. Many of these are chambered in 6.5 creedmoor. I have noticed that many of these shooters become discouraged when I advise them that Muzzle breaks are not allowed in F Class. They also become intimidated when folks are shooting next to them off of large pedestal style rests and 3" forend stocks.

I will also point out which isnt new the influx of PRS rifles showing up on local firing lines. Is it time for F class to incorporate an "F Tac" or "precision rifle" category. The rules SHOULD be in my opinion any 30 cal rifle and lower shot off a foldable bipod, muzzle break and squeeze bag. No bunny ears. Curious what other match directors think of this?

The way I hear it Ftr was at one time something like "hunting rifle" class. Basically, there were club matches all over encouraging people to bring their hunting rifle with a Harris bipod to increase numbers. Then it morfed into what it is today which has nothing to do with hunting rifles.

I think you are basically saying the same thing. More participation is a good thing. Let's make a competition for what the people already have to shoot.

You should be asking the people you want to show up, not the people who are already there. Because the people already there aren't going to want any changes.

 

[Belly Benchrester]

"tactical"
So would there be a minimum number of buckle straps/webbing?
How many points would be deducted for not wearing your hat backwards?

The way I hear it Ftr was at one time something like "hunting rifle" class. Basically, there were club matches all over encouraging people to bring their hunting rifle with a Harris bipod to increase numbers. Then it morfed into what it is today which has nothing to do with hunting rifles.

I think you are basically saying the same thing. More participation is a good thing. Let's make a competition for what the people already have to shoot.

You should be asking the people you want to show up, not the people who are already there. Because the people already there aren't going to want any changes.

very well said! as an FTR shooter i can say that a wide bipod, 30-32" BBL and 200 grain bullets is a specialty hotrod. Lets get some practical rifles back into F Class.

 

[K22]

I haven't competed in the shooting sports for many years and when I did it was solely with pistols, NRA Precision (bullseye) and Hunter's Silhouette. Since varmint hunting, my main endeavor for the last 25 years or so is wanning in my area, I would like to get into some form of practical rifle shooting competition. I essentially do this now, competing against myself. However having the interaction with fellow shooters, I miss.

The problem is that most of the clubs in my area have limited ranges, i.e., 100 to 200 yards. I think it would be beneficial to advance the shooting sports if some simplified practical competition could be devised for 100 yards rifle ranges that anyone with a rifle could compete.

My idea is a factory rifle shot off the bench with an attached foldable bipod (e.g., Harris) with no rear support. The bench shooting position would open the competition to old farts like me with physical limitations. The scoring target could be made small enough and limitations could be placed on rifles to make it competitively challenging. The goal would be to get more shooters involved in the sport, not to produce the next world champion F Class shooter. But like most of my old age ideas, I know this will go nowhere.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I haven't competed in the shooting sports for many years and when I did it was solely with pistols, NRA Precision (bullseye) and Hunter's Silhouette. Since varmint hunting, my main endeavor for the last 25 years or so is wanning in my area, I would like to get into some form of practical rifle shooting competition. I essentially do this now, competing against myself. However having the interaction with fellow shooters, I miss.

The problem is that most of the clubs in my area have limited ranges, i.e., 100 to 200 yards. I think it would be beneficial to advance the shooting sports if some simplified practical competition could be devised for 100 yards rifle ranges that anyone with a rifle could compete.

My idea is a factory rifle shot off the bench with an attached foldable bipod (e.g., Harris) with no rear support. The bench shooting position would open the competition to old farts like me with physical limitations. The scoring target could be made small enough and limitations could be placed on rifles to make it competitively challenging. The goal would be to get more shooters involved in the sport, not to produce the next world champion F Class shooter. But like most of my old age ideas, I know this will go nowhere.

Benchrest shooting of any kind at any distance would attract more people.

I talk to customers all the time. Most are shooting club comps at 300 or 200 yards. And it's pretty much "run what you brung".

 

[ebb]

The first match I went as a spectator with a friend that shot, long before there was and F class, I was having a great time watching. Then between distances I started hearing all this whining and crying about what this one was doing or what that one was shooting, and it spoiled a perfect day for me. They were arguing about who was going to come in 9th or 10th!!! Really? Just exactly what is going on here in this thread. Biggest bunch of cry babies I ever heard. All of this crap about muzzle brakes could end with a small thin piece of plywood let into a 2x6 for a screen. I heard Gandi said this about Christians but its appropriate for rifle matches, I would love to shoot a match if it weren't for the other shooters. I skipped church Fathers day to watch a match and it looked like a fashion show. If I decide to shoot, I am going to show up with my ugly purple gun and a pair of bibbers and bare foot and my home made rifle rest.

 

[cp255]

If it weren't for F-Class rules I would see no reason to ever build a rifle without a brake (I live in a state where I can't have suppressors.)

 

[cp255]

I don’t think the muzzle brake is that hard to remove. Having shot tactical style matches where everyone has a brake and fires at the same time it kind of sucks being prone next to them. The muzzle brakes are very effective for the shooter but really annoying to anyone next to you. Many times I’ve had the concussion from another rifle settle my bags and move my POA. 60+ rounds is also a lot different than the 5 or 10 per stage for tactical matches where you are the only one shooting. You could make it work but would have to have a decent distance between shooters.

It's not hard to remove but it changes your zero and maybe load. I have seen my point of impact shift by 0.5 mrad. Also depending on how much you believe in barrel harmonics, tuners, etc, this would change your load. I am not going to re-zero before and after every match. I also don't want to have to develop two different loads.

 

[BoydAllen]

The way I hear it Ftr was at one time something like "hunting rifle" class. Basically, there were club matches all over encouraging people to bring their hunting rifle with a Harris bipod to increase numbers. Then it morfed into what it is today which has nothing to do with hunting rifles.

I think you are basically saying the same thing. More participation is a good thing. Let's make a competition for what the people already have to shoot.

You should be asking the people you want to show up, not the people who are already there. Because the people already there aren't going to want any changes.

I heard a different story. Up in Canada they were losing experienced shooters because of eye issues with the iron sight requirement for highpower at the time, so they allowed scopes and along with that rests. A little later after they saw that scopes were giving too many perfect scores, a different, smaller ring diameter target was adopted for F Class. The fellow that was involved in getting this class started was named Farquharson, hence F class.

F Class

F Class uses modern bolt-action rifles, with scopes and rests at distances of 300-1200 yards

nra.org.uk

 

[cmysix]

just have a "brake class" done. easy peasy.

 

[Belly Benchrester]

just have a "brake class" done. easy peasy.

folding bipods are a must for this class in my opinion, not just brakes.

 

[Will Henry]

In the beginning, "F" class was described as "any rifle, any sight, fired prone with any rest, including a bag of horsefeathers". This description came from the originator of the class, George Farquharson. F/TR was the attempt to accommodate the tactical guys some years later. I was opposed to the bipod requirement and still am.
Since "F" Class began in Canada, with shooters firing in pairs, muzzle brakes were a nonstarter. By the way, if a thread protector which is the same weight and length of the brake is used, POI change is pretty minimal.
From the outset, there were shooters who whined because the other guys were using rear bags with ears or front rests with adjustments. Others whined because other guys used rifles with custom actions. At one Provincial match, the shooter I was paired with voiced his concern about having to compete against the high dollar customs. Since I was in first place, shooting a rifle based on a model 70, I didn't see it as a problem. When I was ultimately beaten by a friend shooting an RPA, it wasn't because of his rifle but because I blew a wind call.
Right now, if you want to shoot a 6.5, you can shoot in "F" open. If you have a 308, shoot in F/TR. In either case, you will have to lose the brake, but real men don't need brakes! WH

 

[cmysix]

folding bipods are a must for this class in my opinion, not just brakes.

but this is exactly why this stuff gets so mucked up, everyone thinks someone's got an advantage because of their gear. so everyone wants to set the rules in there favor, These ranges are privately owned, SO if your area has a lot of shooters that want/can shoot brakes/folding bipods, then pick a weight, caliber, brake, bipods rules and have at it, if it catches on, then it grows , WIN-WIN

 

[Walt Krafft]

It really is a safety issue with brakes. By yourself 10 shots no big deal. 20 shooters for 20 shots the noise impulse and duration is in the dangerouse level. Do that 3 or 4 times in a day? Most of us have already suffered hearing loss. Your need to twist a scope knob a couple of clicks as a reason to keep your brake is laughable.

 

[ATFIV]

Keep the muzzle breaks in prs and allow supressors!
13lb weight limit with bipod
6mm-30 cal
Go have fun

Hunting rifle crowd can play and the prs crowd can use a lighter contour and play

 

[DonkeyHote]

I haven't competed in the shooting sports for many years and when I did it was solely with pistols, NRA Precision (bullseye) and Hunter's Silhouette. Since varmint hunting, my main endeavor for the last 25 years or so is wanning in my area, I would like to get into some form of practical rifle shooting competition. I essentially do this now, competing against myself. However having the interaction with fellow shooters, I miss.

The problem is that most of the clubs in my area have limited ranges, i.e., 100 to 200 yards. I think it would be beneficial to advance the shooting sports if some simplified practical competition could be devised for 100 yards rifle ranges that anyone with a rifle could compete.

My idea is a factory rifle shot off the bench with an attached foldable bipod (e.g., Harris) with no rear support. The bench shooting position would open the competition to old farts like me with physical limitations. The scoring target could be made small enough and limitations could be placed on rifles to make it competitively challenging. The goal would be to get more shooters involved in the sport, not to produce the next world champion F Class shooter. But like most of my old age ideas, I know this will go nowhere.

At our club we have something similar. Front rest not to exceed 3inches or bi-pods, 30cal or less, no muzzle brakes. No rear support whatsoever other than your hands and shoulders.
We shoot to 500 meters. Basically a bench rest silhouette with 1/4 scale targets.
10 at 200m, 10 at 300 ,10 at 385m, and 10 at 500m. 2:30 seconds for 5 rounds.
It is fun and challenging to get a score of 40.
Also sighting is before the mach, no sighters during the 40 shots, and no flags.

 

[drop_point]

In the beginning, "F" class was described as "any rifle, any sight, fired prone with any rest, including a bag of horsefeathers". This description came from the originator of the class, George Farquharson. F/TR was the attempt to accommodate the tactical guys some years later. I was opposed to the bipod requirement and still am.
Since "F" Class began in Canada, with shooters firing in pairs, muzzle brakes were a nonstarter. By the way, if a thread protector which is the same weight and length of the brake is used, POI change is pretty minimal.
From the outset, there were shooters who whined because the other guys were using rear bags with ears or front rests with adjustments. Others whined because other guys used rifles with custom actions. At one Provincial match, the shooter I was paired with voiced his concern about having to compete against the high dollar customs. Since I was in first place, shooting a rifle based on a model 70, I didn't see it as a problem. When I was ultimately beaten by a friend shooting an RPA, it wasn't because of his rifle but because I blew a wind call.
Right now, if you want to shoot a 6.5, you can shoot in "F" open. If you have a 308, shoot in F/TR. In either case, you will have to lose the brake, but real men don't need brakes! WH

Then real men will lose badly at PRS.

 

[Laurie]

My primary club (in northern England) runs large-entry combined 'Target Rifle' ('Fullbore' / Palma); F/TR and F-Open comps covering 300-1,000 yards and usually with 50-plus entries.

Years ago we added a 'factory' class that morphed into what we call F-Military now, ie 'tactical rifles', most of which are custom built. Today, F-Mil entries exceed 'Open' and approximate to F/TR shooter numbers. Scores match the two 'F' classes up to 800 yards and aren't that much further behind at 900/1,000 yards. They shoot on the same (small-ring) targets as F-competitors.

These are the F-Mil specific notes that accompany the online invitation from the Match Director to members to enter each fixture:

As per F/TR NRA/ICFRA rules, but modified by

1. Any centre fire calibre can be used up to & including .338
2. There are no restrictions on the weight of the rifle used.
3. Folding Bipods (Harris style) must be capable of being deployed within 10 seconds & must be no wider than 8 inches when stowed. i.e. No fixed Bipods.
4. Back bags are to be of soft bean bag type. Bag riders & leather back bags are not permitted.
5. Muzzle devices i.e. Breaks, Tuners & suppressors are optional.

Each of the four classes are squadded as groups over the relays, albeit with the number of F-Mil and F/TR entries, the former are often split either side of the lunch break.

Almost every such competitor we have uses a muzzle brake or sound moderator (suppressor) - far more with brakes than mods. A couple of short-barrel 338LMs in the early days aside which produced teeth rattling blast, we have never had any of the problems claimed in earlier posts. (And we found ways to mitigate the 338LM problems.) The F-Mil entrants are squadded together target/lane wise as are the other three classes sometimes with a modest separation between them.

 

[John Beauchamp]

I see three posibilities
Start a new organization with your own rules shot on a different day
Shoot it as a club match with club rules on a different day
Shoot it as a club match with club rules same day different relay

 

[Aero]

As a newer match director there has been many new competitors reach out to me that have rifles with muzzle breaks, foldable bipods and squeeze bags. Many of these are chambered in 6.5 creedmoor. I have noticed that many of these shooters become discouraged when I advise them that Muzzle breaks are not allowed in F Class. They also become intimidated when folks are shooting next to them off of large pedestal style rests and 3" forend stocks.

I will also point out which isnt new the influx of PRS rifles showing up on local firing lines. Is it time for F class to incorporate an "F Tac" or "precision rifle" category. The rules SHOULD be in my opinion any 30 cal rifle and lower shot off a foldable bipod, muzzle break and squeeze bag. No bunny ears. Curious what other match directors think of this?

As a match director at local club matches, you can pretty much run whatever kind of match you want. If there is enough interest, others will follow and it may end up being officially sanctioned by some organization or start your own and run with it.