How far can one go in reducing a load (for recoil reduction). What is the guiding principle? I have heard that you can ring the barrel by reducing the charge. Or, is that just for black powder? It would seem like, all else being equal, if I wanted to reduce the recoil by 50%, I could just reduce the amount of powder in the case by 1/2. But something tells me its not going to be that easy...
How far can one "reduce" a load?
- Thread starter jambrdly
- Start date
I would want the correct load for application and chambering. If I was concerned about recoil, I would add a cushy butt pad or rad system. I tried to shoot a 300 wsm pushing heavy bullets with a rad and it was just too much for me so I simply dumped that chambering. Call me a wuss, but it was not for me.
Very few commercially available powders are suitable for loads below book listed loads. H4895 is the primary one I am aware of that allows substantial reduced loads if H4895 is listed for your cartridge & bullet weight. If you don't already have H4895 you may be SOL as that one has been un-avaiable for a while now.
If you go this rout be sure you are providing enough velocity at impact to allow for proper expansion.
Another viable option for reduced recoil may be to go with a lighter all copper bullet at lower end of listed velocity. Hammer bullets offer the widest range of bullet weights I have seen. be sure you have enough twist to properly stabilize your bullet selection.
If you go this rout be sure you are providing enough velocity at impact to allow for proper expansion.
Another viable option for reduced recoil may be to go with a lighter all copper bullet at lower end of listed velocity. Hammer bullets offer the widest range of bullet weights I have seen. be sure you have enough twist to properly stabilize your bullet selection.
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Jam -
Howdy !
" Secondary explosive effects " in a rifle ( load) can be induced by use of too small a charge of " fast burning powder " ( often ) in a comparatively larger bore diameter.
At the same time, one can also get into trouble when shooting too low a charge in other calibres not thought of as " large "
I read a post @ another shooting website, where the OP had worked in a ballistics lab.
He was involved in testing for secondary explosive effects ( S.E.E. ), using a variety of powders. The calibre / case they used was .308, and they were allowed to test barrels to destruction.... which they frequently DID.
In any / all instances where the reloader / shooter is considering assembling & shooting
" reduced loads ".... they " should know what they're about "; and use extreme caution.
" DANGER....DANGER Will Robinson " !!
With regards,
357Mag
For what needs ?
Junior or woman shooter ?
To take game or just punch paper ?
Caliber ?
Muzzle brakes work to reduce felt recoil.
Shoulder savers work to reduce felt recoil.
Shoulder savers work to reduce felt recoil.
As do suppressors.
Some regions actually permit them.
For reduced recoil loads, look at Lyman's cast bullet guide. It has loads for nearly all rifle cartridges. You can substitute jacketed bullets of the same-ish weight and use powder charges in the middle 2/3 of the listed loads. For example, common 308 loads run at 1600-2200 fps with a long list of powders. Pressures are listed and often below 30,000 psi so you can use pistol primers. Accuracy is usually very good.
Cast bullets for ultimate recoil reduction. My 444 is a pussy cat with cast bullets and a po bitch with full house loads. Other options - heavier gun, brake, suppressor, RAD, lighter bullet, smaller cartridge.
joshb
Gold $$ Contributor
Look for published loads using small amounts of pistol powder. Use lighter bullets or cast bullets.
I have some H4895 I want to use for reduced 30-06 loads. I have a couple old guns I would love to shoot but full house loads are loosening my teeth. I WON’T put a break on a 1903 A3.
(Yup…it’s official. I’m old.
)
I have some H4895 I want to use for reduced 30-06 loads. I have a couple old guns I would love to shoot but full house loads are loosening my teeth. I WON’T put a break on a 1903 A3.
(Yup…it’s official. I’m old.
)
Give us a little more information. Someone here likely has some practical experience. This is a diverse and helpful group.
In general rifle mass is your friend, but that isn't practical in some applications.
In general rifle mass is your friend, but that isn't practical in some applications.
If you google subsonic reload data, many valid sites appear with dozens of recommendations and solutions. Some say using pistol powder will often work. I'd be very leery of taking advice from those in forums who have no real world experience in this matter. I did some research on 223 subsonic just to see if it could be done, and it can. Be prepared to lose distance and with it, accuracy.
Simply reducing the powder charge in an effort to reduce recoil is a bad idea, generally speaking. Practically speaking, with a rifle case you reach a point where the powder is not generating enough pressure to burn efficiently and things go south from there pretty quick. Does reducing the powder charge reduce the recoil? Yes, but not by a significant amount. The best option for reducing recoil is to add a brake. That significantly increases the rifles report, which can be counter productive in some ways. The next best options are to use a lighter bullet and/or add weight to the rifle.
In order to use the same bullet and get noticeably less recoil, you need to switch to a faster burning powder. The majority of the recoil is produce by the pressure exiting the muzzle of the rifle. It basically acts like a rocket engine trying to propel the barrel backwards. That's why a muzzle brake works. It redirects the pressure radially so that it's counter acting itself instead of propelling the barrel back into your shoulder. Moving to a faster powder charge does a couple of things, but mainly it burns faster (earlier in the barrel) which reduces the pressure at the muzzle. Similarly, a lighter bullet moves down the barrel easier which results in lower pressure at the muzzle.
FWIW - I used to swear up and down that recoil was mostly generated while the bullet was still in the barrel. My thinking was that for every action there is a reaction, so in order to accelerate the bullet forward, the gun must be trying to accelerate rearward. Knight Armament paid a good friend of mine to develop a recoil-less rifle. He started working on the project while he was still an intern with them, and continued with it after graduating with his BSME. He spent years doing testing using high speed video and various load cells to determine where and how the recoil is generated. In the end, he produced a rifle that you could literally write your name on the wall with. A few years ago, he sat down and explained to me how the felt recoil is actually generated and where the flaw in my reasoning was, and he was right.
In order to use the same bullet and get noticeably less recoil, you need to switch to a faster burning powder. The majority of the recoil is produce by the pressure exiting the muzzle of the rifle. It basically acts like a rocket engine trying to propel the barrel backwards. That's why a muzzle brake works. It redirects the pressure radially so that it's counter acting itself instead of propelling the barrel back into your shoulder. Moving to a faster powder charge does a couple of things, but mainly it burns faster (earlier in the barrel) which reduces the pressure at the muzzle. Similarly, a lighter bullet moves down the barrel easier which results in lower pressure at the muzzle.
FWIW - I used to swear up and down that recoil was mostly generated while the bullet was still in the barrel. My thinking was that for every action there is a reaction, so in order to accelerate the bullet forward, the gun must be trying to accelerate rearward. Knight Armament paid a good friend of mine to develop a recoil-less rifle. He started working on the project while he was still an intern with them, and continued with it after graduating with his BSME. He spent years doing testing using high speed video and various load cells to determine where and how the recoil is generated. In the end, he produced a rifle that you could literally write your name on the wall with. A few years ago, he sat down and explained to me how the felt recoil is actually generated and where the flaw in my reasoning was, and he was right.
It's not sub-sonic but 6gr-9gr of green dot behind a 40gr - 50gr bullet will run around 2000 fps, sounds like a 22wmr, and shoots well under 1moa for me. I've used this load for years to dispatch coons and groundhogs in my back yard (edge of a small town), and I take it out west to shoot prairie dogs. Its more wind resistant than a 17hmr, and I can shoot as much of it as I want without worrying about getting my barrel too hot. Works well out to around 150 yds. At one point I was strongly considering buying a 22 Hornet, but decided not to because this load gets me everything I could want out of a Hornet while being cheaper and easier to reload (not to mention I already had the dies, brass, bullets, and powder).
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