This is working for me
What Do You Think of This Barrel Break-in Process?
- Thread starter Phil3
- Start date
I see those poor souls at the range sometimes, with solvents, patches, and rods going through the ritual burning up expensive ammo. Reminds me of the Chyenne Ghost Dancers, no offense intended to our Native Americans.Except the myth that gunsmiths promote 'break in' to sell more barrels.
The one above appears to be 100-200 rounds
What is really sad is when I see them at the range a few months later with their rifle after the event, "the barrel break in". A lot of them have their scope mounted too high resulting in poor cheek weld, head floating around like a bobble head while trying to shoot precisely. Then there is the poor bench technique, rifle not returned to same point on front rest, blocks of wood for a front rest, sling under the rifle forearm, shooting too fast, etc. But critters beware, the hunter has "properly broken in" his barrel,
, for 2 moa groups. 
I find most bbl break in to be done or nearly so inside of about 20 rounds. I don't think any gunsmiths or bbl makers are getting rich from that. Sorry, just don't.
jelenko
Gold $$ Contributor
kyotekiller25
Silver $$ Contributor
Barrel break in for premium hand lapped barrels is a scam.
Absolutely no need for it, at least with top tier cut rifled barrels anyway. I've cleaned my 7-300 with a Bartlein a whole 2 or 3 times in almost 500 rounds, and it still stacks them on top of each other. Absolutely no barrel break in.
Shoot it until it's broke in, then clean it, and shoot until accuracy falls off, then clean it, and repeat...
Absolutely no need for it, at least with top tier cut rifled barrels anyway. I've cleaned my 7-300 with a Bartlein a whole 2 or 3 times in almost 500 rounds, and it still stacks them on top of each other. Absolutely no barrel break in.
Shoot it until it's broke in, then clean it, and shoot until accuracy falls off, then clean it, and repeat...
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is proof considered a premium hand lapped barrel??
i always thought barrel break in was a myth until I worked on getting a load for my buddies new gun.
i will be breaking in barrels from now on
i always thought barrel break in was a myth until I worked on getting a load for my buddies new gun.
i will be breaking in barrels from now on
wildcatter
Silver $$ Contributor
It's only bs if "everything" doesn't matter to you! I assure you no barrel maker can assure how many shots it takes to completely break in a barrel!
But I will assure everyone, if you have any copper fouling after a shot. The next shot you take without removing it. Will do nothing to get rid of what is causing it! Clean, and the next bullet will do the job of smoothing the imperfection much sooner. Leving the copper will only create more copper fouling until it is removed, and will never fix the cause!
Some barrels, Krieger and Bartlien are all I use, can take as little as 1 or 2 cleanings to break in. Some have taken over 50 rounds to get optimum results. But then this is all a matter of what you expect from your equipment!
I want this consistently!
If it doesn't, I want to be sure I'm the cause, not the barrel!
The fact is, if anyone thinks they can get optimum performance from a barrel that has any amount of Cooper in it, they are mistaken. But if the kind of accuracy you get from a copper fouled barrel is acceptable to them. Well then there is a lot of proven processes to get optimum results will never matter!
Some just accept far less perfection than others, and will never understand. Others just refuse facts, to avoid the work it takes to obtain perfection.
I don't agree with some of this process that was stated. But cleaning a barrel, until it can shoot more than one shot without copper fouling a cool barrel, is one thing I will continue to make sure every barrel I own will do! If not, I will replace it with one I can confirm will.
But I will assure everyone, if you have any copper fouling after a shot. The next shot you take without removing it. Will do nothing to get rid of what is causing it! Clean, and the next bullet will do the job of smoothing the imperfection much sooner. Leving the copper will only create more copper fouling until it is removed, and will never fix the cause!
Some barrels, Krieger and Bartlien are all I use, can take as little as 1 or 2 cleanings to break in. Some have taken over 50 rounds to get optimum results. But then this is all a matter of what you expect from your equipment!
I want this consistently!
If it doesn't, I want to be sure I'm the cause, not the barrel!
The fact is, if anyone thinks they can get optimum performance from a barrel that has any amount of Cooper in it, they are mistaken. But if the kind of accuracy you get from a copper fouled barrel is acceptable to them. Well then there is a lot of proven processes to get optimum results will never matter!
Some just accept far less perfection than others, and will never understand. Others just refuse facts, to avoid the work it takes to obtain perfection.
I don't agree with some of this process that was stated. But cleaning a barrel, until it can shoot more than one shot without copper fouling a cool barrel, is one thing I will continue to make sure every barrel I own will do! If not, I will replace it with one I can confirm will.
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That pretty well sums it up, right there. Also, a lot of people mention that a premium bbl doesn't require a break in. I would largely agree with that except the throat is 99% of what break in is working on..on a premium, lapped bbl. No matter how perfect the chamber is cut, there will be minor tool marks that the flame smooths out within a few shots, but if it's copper plated, the flame is shielded from the area that needs it most and collected that copper to begin with. I'm sure friction plays a role too but I believe that 3500-5000° flame does the majority of the work here.
Speaking of flames...Got my suit on. Fire away. Lol!
Barrel break-in is not the correct terminology... it should be called Throat Break-in for a properly lapped barrel.
For the folks that don't believe what is written below... here's how you can verify it.
1. Take one of your old chamber reamers and file a few notches in the throat area of the reamer.
2. Use this modified reamer to rechamber a used barrel that didn't previously didn't show signs of copper.
3. Shoot this modified barrel and now watch it make a crapload of copper toward the muzzle. This effect is even more profound in longer Fclass length barrels.
See attached photo of a test chamber throat that looks like a motorcross track.
In the front of the Gunsmiths Book of Chamber Reamers there is a very good section about break-in and cleaning. This information has been passed on from highly experienced barrel and reamer makers.
Break-In
With any premium lapped barrel the lay of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, very little is done to the bore during break-in but the throat is another story. When your barrel is chambered, there will be some amount of reamer marks left in the throat that are perpendicular to the lands,i.e. across the direction of the bullet travel. When the bullet is forced into the throat, copper dust is released into the gas, which at this temperature and pressure is actually plasma. The copper dust is vaporized in this gas and is carried down the barrel. As the gas expands and cools, the copper comes out of suspension and is deposited in the bore usually toward the muzzle. This makes it appear as if the source of the fouling is the bore and subsequent bullets and deposits are fired over it. Copper, which adheres well to itself, will build up quickly and may be difficult to remove later. So when we break in a barrel, our goal is to get the throat deburred and polished without allowing copper to build up in the bore. This is the reasoning for the "fire-one-shot-and-clean" procedure.
Barrels will vary slightly in how many rounds they take to break in because of things like slightly different machinability of the steel, or the condition of the chambering reamer, ect... For example a chrome moly barrel may take longer to break in than stainless steel because it is more abrasion resistant even though it is the same hardness. Also chrome moly has a little more of an affinity for copper than stainless steel so it will usually show a little more "color" if you are using a chemical cleaner. Rim Fire barrels can take an extremely long time to break in - - - sometimes requiring several hundred rounds or more. But cleaning can be lengthened to every 25-50 rounds. The break-in procedure and the clearing procedure are really the same except for the frequency. Remember the goal is to get or keep the barrel clean while polishing out the throat.
The best way to break-in the barrel is to observe when the barrel is broken in: i.e when the fouling is reduced. This is better than some set number of cycles of "shoot and clean" as many owners report practically no fouling after the first few shots, and more break-in would be pointless. Conversely, if more is required, a set number would not address that either. Besides, cleaning is not a completely benign procedure so it should be done carefully and no more than necessary.
It is a good idea to just observe what the barrel is telling you with its fouling pattern. But once it is broken in, there is no need to continue breaking it in.
Initially you should perform the shoot-one-shot-and-clean cycle for five cycles. If fouling hasn't reduced, fire five more cycles and so on until fouling begins to drop off. At that point shoot three shots before cleaning and observe. If fouling is reduced, fire five shots before cleaning. It is interesting to shoot groups during the three and five shot cycles.
This is one of the test barrels that I have tested with an intentional rough throat.
This throat will never stop making copper and will never break-in.
The copper will show in the last 8-12 inches of the muzzle end but it was caused by the throat.
If your gunsmith handed you something like this and you decided to just start shooting it then you would load the barrel up with so much copper that the barrel would never clean and never show the full accuracy potential. However, if you were doing a break-in process then you would probably realize that something is wrong without filling the barrel up with copper and the throat could be corrected.
The amount of burr or tool marks will vary from chamber reamer to chamber reamer and from gunsmith to gunsmith because technique and tooling determines throat quality. The best gunsmiths normally check their own chamber work with a borecope before pulling the barrel out of the lathe.
For the folks that don't believe what is written below... here's how you can verify it.
1. Take one of your old chamber reamers and file a few notches in the throat area of the reamer.
2. Use this modified reamer to rechamber a used barrel that didn't previously didn't show signs of copper.
3. Shoot this modified barrel and now watch it make a crapload of copper toward the muzzle. This effect is even more profound in longer Fclass length barrels.
See attached photo of a test chamber throat that looks like a motorcross track.
In the front of the Gunsmiths Book of Chamber Reamers there is a very good section about break-in and cleaning. This information has been passed on from highly experienced barrel and reamer makers.
Break-In
With any premium lapped barrel the lay of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, very little is done to the bore during break-in but the throat is another story. When your barrel is chambered, there will be some amount of reamer marks left in the throat that are perpendicular to the lands,i.e. across the direction of the bullet travel. When the bullet is forced into the throat, copper dust is released into the gas, which at this temperature and pressure is actually plasma. The copper dust is vaporized in this gas and is carried down the barrel. As the gas expands and cools, the copper comes out of suspension and is deposited in the bore usually toward the muzzle. This makes it appear as if the source of the fouling is the bore and subsequent bullets and deposits are fired over it. Copper, which adheres well to itself, will build up quickly and may be difficult to remove later. So when we break in a barrel, our goal is to get the throat deburred and polished without allowing copper to build up in the bore. This is the reasoning for the "fire-one-shot-and-clean" procedure.
Barrels will vary slightly in how many rounds they take to break in because of things like slightly different machinability of the steel, or the condition of the chambering reamer, ect... For example a chrome moly barrel may take longer to break in than stainless steel because it is more abrasion resistant even though it is the same hardness. Also chrome moly has a little more of an affinity for copper than stainless steel so it will usually show a little more "color" if you are using a chemical cleaner. Rim Fire barrels can take an extremely long time to break in - - - sometimes requiring several hundred rounds or more. But cleaning can be lengthened to every 25-50 rounds. The break-in procedure and the clearing procedure are really the same except for the frequency. Remember the goal is to get or keep the barrel clean while polishing out the throat.
The best way to break-in the barrel is to observe when the barrel is broken in: i.e when the fouling is reduced. This is better than some set number of cycles of "shoot and clean" as many owners report practically no fouling after the first few shots, and more break-in would be pointless. Conversely, if more is required, a set number would not address that either. Besides, cleaning is not a completely benign procedure so it should be done carefully and no more than necessary.
It is a good idea to just observe what the barrel is telling you with its fouling pattern. But once it is broken in, there is no need to continue breaking it in.
Initially you should perform the shoot-one-shot-and-clean cycle for five cycles. If fouling hasn't reduced, fire five more cycles and so on until fouling begins to drop off. At that point shoot three shots before cleaning and observe. If fouling is reduced, fire five shots before cleaning. It is interesting to shoot groups during the three and five shot cycles.
This is one of the test barrels that I have tested with an intentional rough throat.
This throat will never stop making copper and will never break-in.
The copper will show in the last 8-12 inches of the muzzle end but it was caused by the throat.
If your gunsmith handed you something like this and you decided to just start shooting it then you would load the barrel up with so much copper that the barrel would never clean and never show the full accuracy potential. However, if you were doing a break-in process then you would probably realize that something is wrong without filling the barrel up with copper and the throat could be corrected.
The amount of burr or tool marks will vary from chamber reamer to chamber reamer and from gunsmith to gunsmith because technique and tooling determines throat quality. The best gunsmiths normally check their own chamber work with a borecope before pulling the barrel out of the lathe.
Last edited:
Thank you sir!Barrel break-in is not the correct terminology... it should be called Throat Break-in for a properly lapped barrel.
For you guys that don't believe what is written below... here's how you can verify it.
1. Take one of your old chamber reamers and file a few notches in the throat area of the reamer.
2. Use this modified reamer to rechamber a used barrel that didn't previously didn't show signs of copper.
3. Shoot this modified barrel and now watch it make a crapload of copper toward the muzzle. This effect is even more profound in longer Fclass length barrels.
See attached photo of a test chamber throat that looks like a motorcross track.
In the front of the Gunsmiths Book of Chamber Reamers there is a very good section about break-in and cleaning. This information has been passed on from highly experienced barrel and reamer makers.
Break-In
With any premium lapped barrel the lay of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, very little is done to the bore during break-in but the throat is another story. When your barrel is chambered, there will be some amount of reamer marks left in the throat that are perpendicular to the lands,i.e. across the direction of the bullet travel. When the bullet is forced into the throat, copper dust is released into the gas, which at this temperature and pressure is actually plasma. The copper dust is vaporized in this gas and is carried down the barrel. As the gas expands and cools, the copper comes out of suspension and is deposited in the bore usually toward the muzzle. This makes it appear as if the source of the fouling is the bore and subsequent bullets and deposits are fired over it. Copper, which adheres well to itself, will build up quickly and may be difficult to remove later. So when we break in a barrel, our goal is to get the throat deburred and polished without allowing copper to build up in the bore. This is the reasoning for the "fire-one-shot-and-clean" procedure.
Barrels will vary slightly in how many rounds they take to break in because of things like slightly different machinability of the steel, or the condition of the chambering reamer, ect... For example a chrome moly barrel may take longer to break in than stainless steel because it is more abrasion resistant even though it is the same hardness. Also chrome moly has a little more of an affinity for copper than stainless steel so it will usually show a little more "color" if you are using a chemical cleaner. Rim Fire barrels can take an extremely long time to break in - - - sometimes requiring several hundred rounds or more. But cleaning can be lengthened to every 25-50 rounds. The break-in procedure and the clearing procedure are really the same except for the frequency. Remember the goal is to get or keep the barrel clean while polishing out the throat.
The best way to break-in the barrel is to observe when the barrel is broken in: i.e when the fouling is reduced. This is better than some set number of cycles of "shoot and clean" as many owners report practically no fouling after the first few shots, and more break-in would be pointless. Conversely, if more is required, a set number would not address that either. Besides, cleaning is not a completely benign procedure so it should be done carefully and no more than necessary.
It is a good idea to just observe what the barrel is telling you with its fouling pattern. But once it is broken in, there is no need to continue breaking it in.
Initially you should perform the shoot-one-shot-and-clean cycle for five cycles. If fouling hasn't reduced, fire five more cycles and so on until fouling begins to drop off. At that point shoot three shots before cleaning and observe. If fouling is reduced, fire five shots before cleaning. It is interesting to shoot groups during the three and five shot cycles.
This is one of the test barrels that I have tested with an intentional rough throat.
This throat will never stop making copper and will never break-in.
The copper will show in the last 8-12 inches of muzzle end but it's caused by the throat.
If your gunsmith handed you something like this and you decided to just start shooting it then you would load the barrel up with so much copper that the barrel would never clean and never show the full accuracy potential. However, if you were doing a break-in process then you would probably realize that something is wrong without filling the barrel up with copper and the throat could be corrected.
The amount of burr or tool marks will vary from chamber reamer to chamber reamer and from gunsmith to gunsmith because technique and tooling determines throat quality. The best gunsmiths normally check their own chamber work with a borecope before pulling the barrel out of the lathe.
If ya'll don't know who this guy is yet, you will. He may well be the best barrel maker we have ever seen or had the pleasure of working with. Yeah, no small statement at all but his record speaks for itself.
Now, hurry up and get rolling again making some great barrels. Lol!
jonbearman
I live in new york state,how unfortunate !
That is quite a procedure OP. Where did you get it from?
He might elaborate beyond it but this was his opening statement to start the thread.
From a production rifle manual. Rather unusual if you ask me, but what do I know...I am a novice. Your thoughts? I think Howa rifles use a hammer forged barrel.
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