Ammo Question/Tuner Question

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I'm all for not poking the bear and just saying "tuners work".

Well, that answers one very broad question but leaves a lot of questions, that we apparently, do not all agree upon the answers to. The biggie is, how do we methodically make them work, as a tool, without a lot of wasted time and ammunition. Are we overlooking good lots of valuable ammo by leaving a tuner at a single setting, is another question, that goes hand in hand my 2nd question, regarding how do we make them work for us rather than against us. Same goes for moving a tuner while tuning.

I've not said that anyone should change what is working for them. What I have is a tuning method that breaks things down into a more predictable and more methodical steps and I'll get to the why's and what fors soon, but the test target I posted yesterday does show those thing and that's why I use it. That target is similar to a rf test but is different, too....it is a cf test target. I'll get there, for anyone that wants to know the test procedure. Again, not re-inventing anything so I don't see a reason for argument yet, if at all. Although, I'd like to know where exactly we disagree. So, lets go through one thing at a time until we find that.

 

[PWNolan]

I'm all for not poking the bear and just saying "tuners work".

You're not kidding anyone. You poke the bear more than I do haha

 

[dgeesaman]

If you are going to shoot with a tuner on, why test without one?

New barrel, for example. If you don't have a matched lot yet that hammers in that barrel you can't develop a high quality tune.

In that case it's best to do the tunnel work without the tuner at all and come back to tuning with the matched lot.

David

 

[TRSR8]

New barrel, for example. If you don't have a matched lot yet that hammers in that barrel you can't develop a high quality tune.

In that case it's best to do the tunnel work without the tuner at all and come back to tuning with the matched lot.

David

Which is why you should test with a gun that has rounds through it, that ideally is tuned with known decent ammo. Otherwise, your test risks rise exponentially especially considering you’re about to drop the better part of $2,000 on ammo.
Exactly how many obstacles do you want to overcome?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Which is why you should test with a gun that has rounds through it, that ideally is tuned with known decent ammo. Otherwise, your test risks rise exponentially especially considering you’re about to drop the better part of $2,000 on ammo.
Exactly how many obstacles do you want to overcome?

As few as possible, with nothing left to guesswork. That's just me though.

 

[BowChamp]

Which is why you should test with a gun that has rounds through it, that ideally is tuned with known decent ammo. Otherwise, your test risks rise exponentially especially considering you’re about to drop the better part of $2,000 on ammo.
Exactly how many obstacles do you want to overcome?

Ideally I would have everything perfect before every firing a shot.......but not very easily done for a new shooter buying a new rifle then finding out ammo is almost unobtainable.

I think most established shooters are using the test tunnels to simply have a chance to buy a larger quantity of ammo at a decent price. I think most new shooters are just hoping to get decent shooting ammo.

How would a new shooter go about finding known decent ammo without first shooting his rifle not tuned?

 

[BowChamp]

Well, that answers one very broad question but leaves a lot of questions, that we apparently, do not all agree upon the answers to. The biggie is, how do we methodically make them work, as a tool, without a lot of wasted time and ammunition. Are we overlooking good lots of valuable ammo by leaving a tuner at a single setting, is another question, that goes hand in hand my 2nd question, regarding how do we make them work for us rather than against us. Same goes for moving a tuner while tuning.

I've not said that anyone should change what is working for them. What I have is a tuning method that breaks things down into a more predictable and more methodical steps and I'll get to the why's and what fors soon, but the test target I posted yesterday does show those thing and that's why I use it. That target is similar to a rf test but is different, too....it is a cf test target. I'll get there, for anyone that wants to know the test procedure. Again, not re-inventing anything so I don't see a reason for argument yet, if at all. Although, I'd like to know where exactly we disagree. So, lets go through one thing at a time until we find that.

I may not agree with everything you have to say...but I'd sure like to hear more about your tuning method.

Thanks!!
Jerry

 

[TRSR8]

I mention this as a public service….zero personal opinion.
I ‘ve mentioned this before but bears repeating.
Over on the WLM site is an extensive thread by PedroS, current world champion, factory sponsored by Lapua. Gentleman tests in Germany extensively.
He gives detailed information, step by step, on how to tune a winning rifle, nothing left to the imagination.
IMHO a must read by anybody using a tuner.
Particular attention should be paid to his summation…..the part where he does NOT then move his tuner.
Lastly….note to Mike……. He is also a respected surgeon so I’d guess he knows a bit more about science than you.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I mention this as a public service….zero personal opinion.
I ‘ve mentioned this before but bears repeating.
Over on the WLM site is an extensive thread by PedroS, current world champion, factory sponsored by Lapua. Gentleman tests in Germany extensively.
He gives detailed information, step by step, on how to tune a winning rifle, nothing left to the imagination.
IMHO a must read by anybody using a tuner.
Particular attention should be paid to his summation…..the part where he does NOT then move his tuner.
Lastly….note to Mike……. He is also a respected surgeon so I’d guess he knows a bit more about science than you.

Lol! You just can't let an opportunity to get a dig in at me go by...ever.
To your point, different science. He's a surgeon and I'm sure he's good at it and has spent a great deal of his life learning about his specialty. So have I.
I've read his posts. It seems like a long way to go to get there but like I said before...do what works for you. Goes for Pedro, you and everyone. No matter and he may well test in Germany too but Pedro is from Portugal..only a few countries off there, Tim!! All the same, right?

Do you not finish reading my posts or just selectively respond to parts of them? It's called context Tim. It matters.

I'm trying to stay above getting into the mud with you but you keep reaching and pulling at me, don't you?

It's just a method of tuning, Tim. What about that bothers you and why can't you let it be? You don't have to read it, much less try it. Same goes for anyone but some care about hearing it without it becoming this same shit.

 

[Doc22]

Lol! You just can't let an opportunity to get a dig in at me go by...ever.
To your point, different science. He's a surgeon and I'm sure he's good at it and has spent a great deal of his life learning about his specialty. So have I.
I've read his posts. It seems like a long way to go to get there but like I said before...do what works for you. Goes for Pedro, you and everyone. No matter and he may well test in Germany too but Pedro is from Portugal..only a few countries off there, Tim!! All the same, right?

Do you not finish reading my posts or just selectively respond to parts of them? It's called context Tim. It matters.

I'm trying to stay above getting into the mud with you but you keep reaching and pulling at me, don't you?

It's just a method of tuning, Tim. What about that bothers you and why can't you let it be? You don't have to read it, much less try it. Same goes for anyone but some care about hearing it without it becoming this same shit.

1 point for @TRSR8. He is trolling you and you are falling for it. I imagine him laughing at every one of these posts that gets you bothered. The rest of us are wise enough to see the comments that have no bearing on the topic. You said your piece and your argument is valid, no need to clarify unless someone legitimately needs clarification. like i still need on your pic. Lol

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

1 point for @TRSR8. He is trolling you and you are falling for it. I imagine him laughing at every one of these posts that gets you bothered. The rest of us are wise enough to see the comments that have no bearing on the topic. You said your piece and your argument is valid, no need to clarify unless someone legitimately needs clarification. like i still need on your pic. Lol

Youll have to forgive me but I was with my wife and enjoying new years eve when you wanted to converse last night. It'll be much easier if you'll just call me tomorrow. You have my number and you'll see why I do this by phone when we talk. I'll go over it in detail and answer any questions but it's gonna take a few minutes by phone or literally hours going back and forth with you and others on a forum. I've posted on it a few times and it always turns into a shit show with the same characters. This is far from my first rodeo with Troll Timmy. He does this stuff on several forums and has a reputation as a real ray of sunshine wherever he goes. Lol!

 

[PWNolan]

@gunsandgunsmithing you guys are just continueing to carry on like you do. I missed where Tim said PedroS is from Germany. Pedro is from Portugal and I've read where he says he has to travel to Germany to test. I think I remember him saying it's kind of a pain with all the gun restrictions and rules over there

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

@gunsandgunsmithing you guys are just continueing to carry on like you do. I missed where Tim said PedroS is from Germany. Pedro is from Portugal and I've read where he says he has to travel to Germany to test. I think I remember him saying it's kind of a pain with all the gun restrictions and rules over there

I'm sure you're right. We have it made over here in regard to availability of places to test things, every day if time and money allows. It's easy to take these things for granted when we should be thankful and defend it always.

 

[TRSR8]

1 point for @TRSR8. He is trolling you and you are falling for it. I imagine him laughing at every one of these posts that gets you bothered. The rest of us are wise enough to see the comments that have no bearing on the topic. You said your piece and your argument is valid, no need to clarify unless someone legitimately needs clarification. like i still need on your pic. Lol

Trolling???? For a guy without a f…ing clue and zero knowledge about the topic you ‘ve already burned bridges for vastly experienced guys trying to help you count me on that list.

 

[JimSC]

off topic but there is a handy little function on forums called the ignore function, when someone contributes nothing useful it makes life more pleasant

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

There is something here often missed by many.
I “suspect” because nobody really knows one major quality of a really good barrel vs others.
The best ones, for whatever reason, stabilize the slug much earlier in the barrel and allow very consistent and stabile exits. Many barrels do not allow for this. Anybody betting against different vibration characteristics between those two types?

I agree a good shooting barrel helps tremendously in tuning. As for different vibrations I couldn’t say my concern is where the barrel is pointing as far as when the bullet exits

Lee

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

@gunsandgunsmithing you guys are just continueing to carry on like you do. I missed where Tim said PedroS is from Germany. Pedro is from Portugal and I've read where he says he has to travel to Germany to test. I think I remember him saying it's kind of a pain with all the gun restrictions and rules over there

I know a RFBR shooter from Brazil who has been to Pedro’s clinics on shooting BR. Pedro has helped quite a few new and experienced shooters trying to increase RFBR in other countries. He does have the credentials that is for sure certain to back what he teaches and it is not solely based on tuning but the whole package.
Going back to the shooter in Brazil he explained that bringing in a barrel blank is harder than a whole rifle how crazy is that. You have to admire how dedicated you have to be to continue something that just has a lot of obstacles to be able to pursue.

Lee

 

[TRSR8]

I agree a good shooting barrel helps tremendously in tuning. As for different vibrations I couldn’t say my concern is where the barrel is pointing as far as when the bullet exits

Lee

Lee,
You missed my point. Where the muzzle is pointing is one item, but if that slug is less stable all the way, i.e. vibrating, I suspect everything is tougher, now you deal with additional factor.
you start to really examine closely some of these holes in targets and see the ones that simply seem smaller, a good example.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Lee,
You missed my point. Where the muzzle is pointing is one item, but if that slug is less stable all the way, i.e. vibrating, I suspect everything is tougher, now you deal with additional factor.
you start to really examine closely some of these holes in targets and see the ones that simply seem smaller, a good example.

Tim, ok I thought you were talking about the barrel but was speaking about the bullet’s flight being unstable

Lee

 

[VLNBYR]

As for different vibrations I couldn’t say my concern is where the barrel is pointing as far as when the bullet exits

Lee

Bullet timing....Bullet exit....Bullet stable/unstable....Vibrations....All meaningless.

Bullet hitting the paper....Priceless.

You either make the bullet hit where you want or you don't and how you get there doesn't matter. All the basic procedures are very well known and long established. Stay on the road well traveled and you will avoid the rabbit holes.