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Composite Carbon Fiber Barrels

I think Butch's point is right but with obvious limitations. Yes, a very light rifle is less stable than one with a little more weight out front but I'll take too light over trying to offhand shoot a BR rifle. It likely is also quite user specific. A young kid will do better with a lighter feeling rifle most of the time. I guess it's just a relative thing, depending on what you are most comfortable with. The Cooper I mentioned earlier has a very nice offhand feel to me but I had a M70 Featherweight a few years back that I spent a good bit of time on, that I could never shoot well offhand. It shot better than it should from a bench but I could never hit anything offhand with that rifle, so it went down the road. It was exactly like Butch was trying to describe though..couldn't keep the muzzle on target with that rifle, unsupported. I missed a gimme shot on a nice buck with that thing one day. It just was not the gun for me. It's a shame too, as it was a nice little rifle that would shoot very well from the bench. A buddy was with me that day and he has never let me live down missing that shot. :oops: What he doesn't know is, that wasn't the only time. :p
 
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The heat is being applied to the inside of the barrel. The Carbon fiber and epoxy glue act as an insulator not different than if you wrapped the barrel in ceramic or in asbestos oven mits. None of that can improve cunduction or dissapation of the heat. It can only serve to hold it in insulating the metal surface from the atmospheric gases! You do not need an IQ above 75 to understand how a pot holder works, a trivit or a thermos works!

Likewise the way in which the carbon fiber faric is being used it can not be stiffer then the weakest part of it's construction in this case the polymer which is fancy plastic can not by mass be stiffer than steel. Both the carbon fiber and the rest of the coposite are being used in such a way that it almost entirely negates the advantages and charcteristics of carbon fiber construction.

In fact the way in which the carbon fiber is being used is only slightly better than how it was misused in the Titan Submarine Disaster. Even a middle school child that has worked with fiberglass, aramiad, kevlar, and carbon fiber understand just how foolish wrapping a barrel in carbon fiber is especially in light of the claims being made. It is so obvious as to be as stupid as someone attempting to convince someone that 20lbs. of feathers weights less than 20lbs. of steel. Now imagine someone trying to convince you that they could mix 20lbs. of feathers with plastic and that it would be stiffer than an indentical mass of steel! Carbon fiber is only relavant when talking about stiffness to weight ratio when constructing structure that has more open space than solid space. So in a monocouque construction like a car or airplane but not when talkng about a piston rod or engine block.

There is a reason why we add shapes in the form of bulges and flaired circular cut outs to automotive floor pans to increase rigidity and stiffness versus adding on or piling on more steel. In aircraft in the wing spars the circular cut outs have flaried endges this increases the strength of those area and reduces cracking and tearing. No place in automotive or aviation use of composite construction will you see carbon fiber used in the manner it is being used in carbon wrapped barrels and no one would attempt to make the claims being made by Proof and other's. They would be laughed out of the professional aviation industry and no one would ever work with them again! Even in composite boating, monuments and amusment industries no one would use the carbon fiber in the way it is being used on these barrels.

As soon as any major amount of deflection is encountered by the tapered barrel blank the carbon composite would begin to seperate from the steel. Even if the steel was not permently sprung the carbon fiber composite would lose it's bond to the steel. So even if it stayed in place and you where unaware of the mechanical seperation it would still be there just unobserved. Even with disimalar metals like aluminium and cast iron look how long it took for the automotive industry to master making an aluminium head, head gasket and cast iron block all play nicely together!

Now imagine them attempting to make a head gasket out of just carbon fiber and polymer epoxy.

If the carbon fiber and plastic was such a hot ticket they would only need to use a steel liner about like what we see with 22LR liners.

Still waiting for this super stiff design to translate into lighter stiffer short actions! We should all start machining the actions down removing all that pesky steel and replacing it with carbon wraped actions! LOL
 
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The heat is being applied to the inside of the barrel. The Carbon fiber and epoxy glue act as an insulator not different than if you wrapped the barrel in ceramic or in asbestos oven mits. None of that can improve cunduction or dissapation of the heat. It can only serve to hold it in insulating the metal surface from the atmospheric gases! You do not need an IQ above 75 to understand how a pot holder works, a trivit or a thermos works!

Likewise the way in which the carbon fiber faric is being used it can not be stiffer then the weakest part of it's construction in this case the polymer which is fancy plastic can not by mass be stiffer than steel. Both the carbon fiber and the rest of the coposite are being used in such a way that it almost entirely negates the advantages and charcteristics of carbon fiber construction.

In fact the way in which the carbon fiber is being used is only slightly better than how it was misused in the Titan Submarine Disaster. Even a middle school child that has worked with fiberglass, aramiad, kevlar, and carbon fiber understand just how foolish wrapping a barrel in carbon fiber is especially in light of the claims being made. It is so obvious as to be as stupid as someone attempting to convince someone that 20lbs. of feathers weights less than 20lbs. of steel. Now imagine someone trying to convince you that they could mix 20lbs. of feathers with plastic and that it would be stiffer than an indentical mass of steel! Carbon fiber is only relavant when talking about stiffness to weight ratio when constructing structure that has more open space than solid space. So in a monocouque construction like a car or airplane but not when talkng about a piston rod or engine block.

There is a reason why we add shapes in the form of bulges and flaired circular cut outs to automotive floor pans to increase rigidity and stiffness versus adding on or piling on more steel. In aircraft in the wing spars the circular cut outs have flaried endges this increases the strength of those area and reduces cracking and tearing. No place in automotive or aviation use of composite construction will you see carbon fiber used in the manner it is being used in carbon wrapped barrels and no one would attempt to make the claims being made by Proof and other's. They would be laughed out of the professional aviation industry and no one would ever work with them again! Even in composite boating, monuments and amusment industries no one would use the carbon fiber in the way it is being used on these barrels.

As soon as any major amount of deflection is encountered by the tapered barrel blank the carbon composite would begin to seperate from the steel. Even if the steel was not permently sprung the carbon fiber composite would lose it's bond to the steel. So even if it stayed in place and you where unaware of the mechanical seperation it would still be there just unobserved. Even with disimalar metals like aluminium and cast iron look how long it took for the automotive industry to master making an aluminium head, head gasket and cast iron block all play nicely together!

Now imagine them attempting to make a head gasket out of just carbon fiber and polymer epoxy.

If the carbon fiber and plastic was such a hot ticket they would only need to use a steel liner about like what we see with 22LR liners.

I would like to see them wager their immortal souls burning in hell forever versus their claims. Maybe wager the parrent companies ability to ever do business in the aviation world if their marketing claims about carbon wrapped barrels where proven to be false!

Basickly all of the companies selling people on carbon wrapped barrels are saying "We think our customer base is stupid and believes in magic and we want to attack your wallet for every dime we can!".

Now a properly made carbon fiber stock is absolutely a great use of carbon composite.

There are only a few things I hate more than liars and thiefs! None of those things are up for discussion on this fantastic sight. Using bad science or outright lies hiden with bad science to generate sales is diabolical and should not be tolerated. It is by manipulation and omission removing the consumers ability to make a purchase with informed consent. When you allow this in non-essential purchases moral fiber declines to the point that the same standard becomes the norm in important area's as well like medicine, politics, fudicary services etc....

Still waiting for this super stiff design to translate into lighter stiffer short actions! We should all start machining the actions down removing all that pesky steel and replacing it with carbon wraped actions! LOL
Yes Sir!
 
The heat is being applied to the inside of the barrel. The Carbon fiber and epoxy glue act as an insulator not different than if you wrapped the barrel in ceramic or in asbestos oven mits. None of that can improve cunduction or dissapation of the heat. It can only serve to hold it in insulating the metal surface from the atmospheric gases! You do not need an IQ above 75 to understand how a pot holder works, a trivit or a thermos works!

Likewise the way in which the carbon fiber faric is being used it can not be stiffer then the weakest part of it's construction in this case the polymer which is fancy plastic can not by mass be stiffer than steel. Both the carbon fiber and the rest of the coposite are being used in such a way that it almost entirely negates the advantages and charcteristics of carbon fiber construction.

In fact the way in which the carbon fiber is being used is only slightly better than how it was misused in the Titan Submarine Disaster. Even a middle school child that has worked with fiberglass, aramiad, kevlar, and carbon fiber understand just how foolish wrapping a barrel in carbon fiber is especially in light of the claims being made. It is so obvious as to be as stupid as someone attempting to convince someone that 20lbs. of feathers weights less than 20lbs. of steel. Now imagine someone trying to convince you that they could mix 20lbs. of feathers with plastic and that it would be stiffer than an indentical mass of steel! Carbon fiber is only relavant when talking about stiffness to weight ratio when constructing structure that has more open space than solid space. So in a monocouque construction like a car or airplane but not when talkng about a piston rod or engine block.

There is a reason why we add shapes in the form of bulges and flaired circular cut outs to automotive floor pans to increase rigidity and stiffness versus adding on or piling on more steel. In aircraft in the wing spars the circular cut outs have flaried endges this increases the strength of those area and reduces cracking and tearing. No place in automotive or aviation use of composite construction will you see carbon fiber used in the manner it is being used in carbon wrapped barrels and no one would attempt to make the claims being made by Proof and other's. They would be laughed out of the professional aviation industry and no one would ever work with them again! Even in composite boating, monuments and amusment industries no one would use the carbon fiber in the way it is being used on these barrels.

As soon as any major amount of deflection is encountered by the tapered barrel blank the carbon composite would begin to seperate from the steel. Even if the steel was not permently sprung the carbon fiber composite would lose it's bond to the steel. So even if it stayed in place and you where unaware of the mechanical seperation it would still be there just unobserved. Even with disimalar metals like aluminium and cast iron look how long it took for the automotive industry to master making an aluminium head, head gasket and cast iron block all play nicely together!

Now imagine them attempting to make a head gasket out of just carbon fiber and polymer epoxy.

If the carbon fiber and plastic was such a hot ticket they would only need to use a steel liner about like what we see with 22LR liners.

I would like to see them wager their immortal souls burning in hell forever versus their claims. Maybe wager the parrent companies ability to ever do business in the aviation world if their marketing claims about carbon wrapped barrels where proven to be false!

Basickly all of the companies selling people on carbon wrapped barrels are saying "We think our customer base is stupid and believes in magic and we want to attack your wallet for every dime we can!".

Now a properly made carbon fiber stock is absolutely a great use of carbon composite.

There are only a few things I hate more than liars and thiefs! None of those things are up for discussion on this fantastic sight. Using bad science or outright lies hiden with bad science to generate sales is diabolical and should not be tolerated. It is by manipulation and omission removing the consumers ability to make a purchase with informed consent. When you allow this in non-essential purchases moral fiber declines to the point that the same standard becomes the norm in important area's as well like medicine, politics, fudicary services etc....

Still waiting for this super stiff design to translate into lighter stiffer short actions! We should all start machining the actions down removing all that pesky steel and replacing it with carbon wraped actions! LOL
I have a Bartlein carbon. I love it, shoots amazing. Don't care if i can't make a submarine or a head gasket out of it. I just wanted a large diameter barrel that was lighter than a same diameter steel barrel and would shoot as well. Certainly no one lied to me or stole from me.
As far as " "We think our customer base is stupid..."
Judging from your grammar and spelling I would say be careful who you characterize as such! ;)
 
Seems to me that 284Mauser is on a mission to discredit carbon-wrapped barrels. Somebody really voided in his Cheerios.
 

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