Help with antique S&W

[brokeasajoke]

A friend has offered this up for sale but I may pass as it is in such poor condition. His FIL passed and he is selling off his collection. I did get a Rossi Squire double 410 in excellent condition. Apart from that I am trying to find anything at all about this pistol. He told me it was 38 S&W. There are no caliber markings on it at all but a sized 44 special will almost slide in. I'm pretty sure it's not a Russian because the brass doesn't reach the cylinder throat by probably 3/16" or so. The frame and cylinder has matching 4 digit numbers. As you can see in the pics that just above my thumb it looks as though The barrel is bent/collapsed inward as though some one fell and muzzle struck some thing hard at one time. Cool piece of history just not sure it's $200 worth. The barrel rib says SMITH & WESSON SPRINGFIELD MASS U.S.A. PAT'D JAN. 17 & 24 65
JULY 11 65 AUG 24 69 JULY 25 71 DEC 2 79 MAY 11 & 25 1880.

 

[farmerjohn]

Hey Feller, I'm thinking that's a "Third Model Russian", if so it will be a 44 russian or a 44 rimfire Henry. Either way I'd find out before I let it get away, some of them are pretty expensive and I would figure that the parts are going to be worth something .......John

 

[brokeasajoke]

I'm starting to think it's a 44-40. I pushed a .429 bullet down the bore and it did leave some rifling marks. Calipers measured the bullet at around .426-.427. It functions both single and double and locks up on all notches.

 

[Fuj]

There was also a cartridge call 44 S&W American. Single
action Model 3's could be had in 44-40. Probably do a
cylinder cast to be sure.

 

[brokeasajoke]

There was also a cartridge call 44 S&W American. Single
action Model 3's could be had in 44-40. Probably do a
cylinder cast to be sure.

Dumb question, what would I do that with?

 

[SSL]

Dumb question, what would I do that with?

How to Make a Cerrosafe Chamber Casting « Daily Bulletin

There are many reasons you might want to make a chamber cast. You may have acquired an older rifle and need to verify the chamber dimensions. Or, if you have a new reamer, you may want to check the exact cut dimensions against the blueprint specs.

bulletin.accurateshooter.com

It's about rifle chambers, but the idea is still the same...actually a lot easier.

 

[Fuj]

Dumb question, what would I do that with?

Cerro alloys.

 

[brokeasajoke]

I'm almost certain it's centerfire. The hammer pin is in the center of the chamber not on top or bottom.

 

[BobT]

Personally, I would buy it for the historical aspect. The gun really doesn't look that bad other than missing finish. I don't think it's a 3rd. Model Russian, they had a spur on the trigger guard I think, also they were single action. I believe what you have is a first model .44 double action but I'm no expert, just an old guy who likes old guns.

 

[joshb]

For $200, I’d buy it in a second! Neat piece of history. I’d make a little stand for it and put it on the mantle!
Addition : Buy it for me and send it! I’ll reimburse you! I’m serious! FFL transfer and shipping!
I’ll cover it!

 

[Blackthorn]

That looks to be a S&W First Model DA “Frontier”. Probably .44 Russian.

 

[brokeasajoke]

That looks to be a S&W First Model DA “Frontier”. Probably .44 Russian.

Isn't 44 Russian much shorter than special? A special case almost fits (see pic) and still has plenty to reach the lip of the throat

 

[brokeasajoke]

For $200, I’d buy it in a second! Neat piece of history. I’d make a little stand for it and put it on the mantle!
Addition : Buy it for me and send it! I’ll reimburse you! I’m serious! FFL transfer and shipping!
I’ll cover it!

I'll keep that in mind sir. He may come off the price some. I've got 3 410s off of him so far. (Almost perfect) Rossi Squire dbl 410, h&R 158 topper 410, and a perfect CBC single 410 all for $450

 

[Blackthorn]

Isn't 44 Russian much shorter than special? A special case almost fits (see pic) and still has plenty to reach the lip of the throat

Russian case measures .970”
44 Special measures 1.16”
Works out to about to 3/16” difference.

 

[brokeasajoke]

Russian case measures .970”
44 Special measures 1.16”
Works out to about to 3/16” difference.

Ok but I think if the special case goes in it still won't reach the lip. I think I'm gonna chamber cast it.

 

[6BRA]

I'll give you $250.00 for it.

 

[Knotwild]

I'm not an S&W expert, but the internet makes us all experts on everything.

S&W 44 Russian

 

[brokeasajoke]

I'll give you $250.00 for it.

As of right now it's not mine to sell and @joshb beat ya too it. We're all the older .44s smaller diameter than what we have now? Even as worn as the bore is, lead still comes out .424-.427 depending where I measured on the bullet.

 

[Blackthorn]

Bullet diameter of a 44 Russian is .429”. So your measurements are close.

 

[Will Henry]

I agree with it being a 44 Russian. The difference in length looks right. WH