POI changed

[IMR4064]

quick newb question for you guys.
last time i had my rifle out i was testing a bunch of loads. probably fired 150 rounds. after i was done i cleaned the gun (and bore) and put it up.

today the loads i chose that day are shooting about 2 inches higher at the same distance. outdoor air temp is 3°f higher. temp of the ammo is about the same as testing day because its stored in the same air conditioned space. But i domt think that would matter as much being i used H4350 powder


is it just from cleaning? if so should i shoot more and see if it comes back to original POI? Or should i adjust the scope?

 

[Clancy]

If you’ve got to shoot more than one or two shots to get your POI stable after cleaning, you’ve either got an extremely rough barrel or something in your cleaning regimen is lacking- most likely leaving oil or a lot of solvent in the barrel.

If it’s not that, it could be the scope.

Also, check that every fastener is torqued to spec.

 

[WSnyder]

the scope?

And what exactly is this scope?

 

[IMR4064]

If you’ve got to shoot more than one or two shots to get your POI stable after cleaning, you’ve either got an extremely rough barrel or something in your cleaning regimen is lacking- most likely leaving oil or a lot of solvent in the barrel.

If it’s not that, it could be the scope.

Also, check that every fastener is torqued to spec.

well i do run a patch with some oil on it after cleaning, but i run a dry patch afterward to get excess out. thats a good point tho.

 

[IMR4064]

And what exactly is this scope?

an older nikon. damn good scope. never had an issue with it

 

[IMR4064]

well i just ran a patch with solvent and then 4 dry patches afterward and shot 6 more rounds. they were all high. i may have to adjust yhe scope begore hunting season starts

 

[IMR4064]

for all i know the bore was dirty befote testing those a few days ago. maybe i put the rifle up with out cleaning last year and forgot.

anyway 8 clicks and im in the black. gonna run another 10 rounds or so just to be sure

 

[searcher]

At risk of underestimating your skills - if you had a tail wind when shooting the first batch and it was no longer prevalent - or had a headwind on your second firing - that alone will easily do what occurred. If both were fired in calm conditions (well under 8 mph) - the issue likely lies elsewhere.

 

[IMR4064]

At risk of underestimating your skills - if you had a tail wind when shooting the first batch and it was no longer prevalent - or had a headwind on your second firing - that alone will easily do what occurred. If both were fired in calm conditions (well under 8 mph) - the issue likely lies elsewhere.

i do have a slight head wind today where as i had a really slight cross wind before that i waited to get calm before shots.

could that be all?

btw my skills can never be under estimated! lol

 

[searcher]

i do have a slight head wind today where as i had a really slight cross wind before that i waited to get calm before shots.

could that be all?

btw my skills can never be under estimated! lol

The wind moves those bullets around, for sure - and it is entirely possible that is all that is going on. Good to take some crepe streamers and hang on a stick - as they are more sensitive than wind flags and pinwheels, though you would have had to have had a pretty good breeze blowing (10-15 MPH) towards you or from behind move them an inch or more vertically. Also, when testing groups - be sure you aren't touching the rifle or influencing recoil any more than necessary - but whatever you do - should be absolutely repeatable. And the rifle must be set up the same way on the rest and bags, same position. If you shoot "free recoil", you have fewer issues with hold. You may already know all these things - but I mention just in case you are not aware of the impact these things have, cumulatively. I have seen a lot of guys with very nice shooting rifles curse the scope and rifle or ammo when conditions change - but it all eventually gets figured out. We all go through the learning curve - and still do.

 

[IMR4064]

The wind moves those bullets around, for sure - and it is entirely possible that is all that is going on. Good to take some crepe streamers and hang on a stick - as they are more sensitive than wind flags and pinwheels, though you would have had to have had a pretty good breeze blowing (10-15 MPH) towards you or from behind move them an inch or more vertically. Also, when testing groups - be sure you aren't touching the rifle or influencing recoil any more than necessary - but whatever you do - should be absolutely repeatable. And the rifle must be set up the same way on the rest and bags, same position. If you shoot "free recoil", you have fewer issues with hold. You may already know all these things - but I mention just in case you are not aware of the impact these things have, cumulatively. I have seen a lot of guys with very nice shooting rifles curse the scope and rifle or ammo when conditions change - but it all eventually gets figured out. We all go through the learning curve - and still do.

hey man thanks for taking the time to help out. im gonna wait for a better day and try this load again and see how it goes.

 

[WV Hitman]

I found years ago that if I cleaned a barrel with oil, etc., after I shot it the next time I shot the rounds hit differently- high, low, other. What I found that works is after I get my guns sighted in I only dry patch the barrel the rest of the year. They shoot the same as sighting in. I sight all my guns in in Feb. & use them thru 12/31, then I give them a real good cleaning.This has worked for 40+ years.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

You tried different loads(bullets,powder,charge weights?) Set the scope. Than reloaded more of the exact combination you decided to retest? And cleaned only after load testing/adjusting the scope? And poi has changed, I would expect that. For several reasons.

 

[Orr89rocz]

Was it a new barrel and you shot 150 rounds through it? It may have sped up if it didnt return to zero after firing several foulers on the clean barrel. Some of mine only need 1-2. Some need 3-4

I never go more than 40 rounds before cleaning in any of my guns. Even less in my higher case capacity 28 nosler. 150 seems like a lot but i suppose it depends on the cartridge and how fast you were firing rounds

 

[K22]

Big game hunting rifle, correct?

What distances did you shoot at and what was your shooting setup.

Things I observed at the range which caused erratic POI are, barrel resting on a hard surface, stock resting on sling on front rest, lead sleds, scope mounted too high which cause poor cheek weld, scope mounting canted. Not saying these necessarily apply to you, but I thought I would mention them.

My process which has worked for me for 50+ years is I confirm my sight in at the range then take the rifle (barrel fouled) in the field. I never hunt with a clean barrel even though most of my rifles shoot to a true POI from a clean barrel.

I've also experienced myself and helped other hunters with sight in problems with rifles where aggressive copper removal was performed. It took several rounds to re-establish consistent POI. I no longer employ aggressive copper removing solvents for all my hunting rifles including varmint rifles.

 

[209jones]

I haven't had that much variance on any of my guns, 2 ", is a lot. For hunting, I've always put 3-4 rds thru the gun and taped the muzzle for the rest of the season to any eliminate clean vs dirty bore differences. I don't clean again til end of season, after shooting a critter, I tape it again and don't even think about it. I'll take the bolt out and clean it off if necc during the season, but, that's it.

 

[K22]

One of point I fail to make. If I interpreted the OP's post correctly, he fired 150 rounds in a load development range session.

Personally, I could not maintain focus and adherence to marksmanship fundamentals needed for precision shooting by shooting that many rounds in one range session, especially if recoil was involved. Thus, I couldn't draw any meaningful conclusions on loads tested.

In addition, if the firing sequence was such that the barrel overheated, then the results would be of questionable value.

 

[FNSafari]

Clean barrels frequently shoot to a different POI until fouled, air density will affect bullet inpact point, the internals of a scope can change a bit due to temperature. I see this frequently when we start at 60 F in the morning and its mid 70's or 80's by noon. The atmosphere is dynamic and things we use change with it, we live on an active planet.

 

[big5ifty]

What distance were you shooting at ?

Do the turrets on the scope lock ?

If the elevation turret was not locked, some kind of handling may have caused it to move, like putting it in our taking it out of a zippered gun case.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Lighting can make a big difference in vertical poi too, cloudy vs sunny.