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Would excessive headspace cause pierced primers and loose primers?

Pierced or cratered..doesn't really matter but, hs can do it for the reasons I mentioned in past 17, iirc. The case slams back against the bolt face and the pin can momentarily back out..or bounce, leaving the primer unsupported and free to flow into the fp hole, similar to too much pin hole clearance. Weak spring can cause it for the same reason
Agreed. But the headspace would have to be excessive. And it still doesn't account for loose primer pockets. Assuming the OP understands how to identify loose primer pockets.

And we're discussing qualifying a gauge set?

Oy!
 
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Excessive headspace can cause primers to “back out”, if the case grips the walls of the chamber really tight and the case head never actually comes in contact with the bolt face.

Loose primers are either caused by cases simply being fired too many times under upend loads, or too hot of a load to begin with.

Pierced primers are usually caused by too hot of a load, but a ragged firing pin tip can also contribute.

You need to do some precision measuring and find out just how much clearance there is between the face of your loaded round and the bolt face.

Do not rely on “feel”.
Scotch tape
 
Pierced or cratered..doesn't really matter but, hs can do it for the reasons I mentioned in past 17
In post 23? I covered a sequence of events. The post was too long.
I re- read your post and I see a weak firing spring mentioned. Yup that could be a cause.
I will still stick with excessive headspace will a bunch of things. Pierced primers is not one of them.
You have to figure in another fault.. I think I also mentioned weak firing spring. Anyway, excessive headspace and pierced primers are not a matched couple, yo need something else added.

I cannot follow long posts on my phone. Too hard to go back. (Poor skill level on my part)
So I will wait until it’s possible for me to get on my computer at home
 
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So how precisely do they do that?

I honestly don't know. Again, I could offer suggestions but everything I can think of introduces variables that are difficult to account for at best.
I do not know I've never toured a shop that manufacturers them.

Optical comparator, large calipers.
 
In post 23? I covered a sequence of events. The post was too long.
I re- read your post and I see a weak firing spring mentioned. Yup that could be a cause.
I will still stick with excessive headspace will a bunch of things. Pierced primers is not one of them.
You have to figure in another fault.. I think I also mentioned weak firing spring. Anyway, excessive headspace and pierced primers are not a matched couple, yo need something else added.

I cannot follow long posts on my phone. Too hard to go back. (Poor skill level on my part)
So I will wait until it’s possible for me to get on my computer at home
I'm not sure if we agree or disagree. Either way, I'll just give a couple of examples of things I've seen and the results/cure. First, I've seen things like cratered and flattened primers as well as ejector marks on fire forming new brass that was several thou short for the chamber. Of course ejector marks are one accepted pressure sign and most also consider flattened primers as another sign. Anyway, using the same load, both problems went away once the brass was formed and bumped for say .002 bump. The only logical explanation is the brass slams back into the bolt face, creating both the ejector mark and the flattened primer. Again, both went away once fire formed and properly bumped. This is repeatable and is worsened if there is residual lube on the case or chamber.

The way that relates to cratered or pierced primers is that the case slamming rearward into the bolt face can hit the pin hard enough for it to come out of the fp hole allowing primer brass to flow into the hole, similar to how it does with too much pin/hole clearance. The pin then bounces back and hits the primer a second time. The result is normally what looks like a classic cratered primer. But again, it didn't do this either, once sized properly, correcting excess headspace. Pierced primers are normally for a related but different reason. They are typically caused as a result of the brass primer being stretched, thinned and weakened by cratering, gone too far and the gas leak through the primer blows the pin rearward depositing that little disc left over from the primer inside the bolt. Cratered or pierced primers don't require excess headspace but they do require excess pin hole clearance. That excess clearance is typically from poor fitment of the pin to the hole but it can also be from a weak spring that backs away creating clearance...err an open hole, temporarily, before rebounding back against the primer. That bounce is how the same issue can be related to excess headspace, even with a new or good spring. I hope that's clear enough. BTW, if I didn't mention it, that "bounce" is how a weak spring can cause cratering, as it allows the pin to retract too far, leaving excess clearance around the pin...or potentially just an open hole for the brass to flow...crater.

Again, I think we agree more than we disagree and maybe it's some of both. And, I may be wrong but it can be repeated, both the problem and the cure, which is strongly indicative. Ultimately, replacing the spring every couple of years is cheap insurance against this and accuracy issues that are no fun to track down. Removing residual lube from the cases and the chamber as well as proper shoulder bump are just good reloading practices that can help prevent issues like this and if need be, having the bolt bushed for proper pin fit is a must on some actions. That fp bounce I refer to, if bad enough, can wreck a Jewel trigger too. It won't typically be that bad unless the primer pierces, letting the gas blow the firing pin likely fully rearward, then bouncing back forward having the top lever attempt to catch the cocking piece on the rebound.
 
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Not really, only 40.5 Gr of H4350 at 2650 FPS. Been using this load for 6 years now in both my 6.5 and 6mm Creedmoor. Changed to the harder #41 primers and issue went away.
It's been a while. What action are you using? If a Remington or savage(really any action), the real fix may well be bushing the bolt but I'd try the softer primers only after making sure that the brass and chamber are clean, shoulder bump is verified to be around .002" from fired brass and it wouldn't hurt to put a new fp spring in it. Preferably, changing only one thing at a time to pinpoint the issue. If it still does it after all of this and with softer primers, I'd say the bolt needs bushed to really correct the root cause, but like you, if a harder primer is all it takes...there ya go. It just doesn't really get to the root cause and might limit how hot you can load it.
 
It's been a while. What action are you using? If a Remington or savage(really any action), the real fix may well be bushing the bolt but I'd try the softer primers only after making sure that the brass and chamber are clean, shoulder bump is verified to be around .002" from fired brass and it wouldn't hurt to put a new fp spring in it. Preferably, changing only one thing at a time to pinpoint the issue. If it still does it after all of this and with softer primers, I'd say the bolt needs bushed to really correct the root cause, but like you, if a harder primer is all it takes...there ya go. It just doesn't really get to the root cause and might limit how hot you can load it.
Both Creeds are Savage actions. Only the model 12 action was giving me the piercing issue. The Savage 110 action seems fine with the CCI 400 primers. There was a post on the Savage forum about 3 years ago that a bunch of people posted they were having cratering issue with their
Savage actions and most of them sent their bolts down south to have them bushed. I thought of it too but it was shooting time (I shoot twice a week on 600 and 1200 yd ranges) so being down a gun was not a option. I did have some #41 primers that I was using on my 5.56/.223 AR's and thought why not try them. After that the bolt bushing thing got forgotten.

Thanks for the response. Have a great rest of the week.
 
If you have a comparator, and a go gauge you should be able to set your headspace where you want it. Most no go gauges are .004 longer than the go gauge. If you use scotch tape, shim stock or what ever on the head of the go gauge you can then check it with your comparator and see what the difference is. Go gauge bolt should close without any effort no go gauge should not. I have also found lots of primers that would crater with loads that had been fine for years. Hard primers or bushing the bolt have always eliminated the issue for me.
Kind regards
 
Reset a barrel on a savage target action with go and no-go gauges just like i did originally, loads previous great now flat, some pierced and loose primers. Bolt lift is heavy.

Bolt closes easy on full length sized cartridges and slight resistance on previously fired unsized brass.
All factory ammo has a lot of head space???
 
Still waiting for someone to describe how they plan to go about qualifying a standard.

A comparator is simply that. A comparator.

You can't qualify a measurement standard by such rudimentary methods. You gonna compare two standards? Which one is correct?

You're using a comparator.
 

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