Lilja /Anschutz 2013 pre fit barrel
- Thread starter ljmontano
- Start date
It's been a while, but back in the day I had several and some shoot very well.
IMHO the installation instructions provided with them are not usable. The 2000 series actions are very temperamental, and if you want performance to repeat between barrels (if you intend to test and use several - one of the strengths of this action) you need to be exceptionally OCD regarding setup variables. Headspace, clamping torque values, clamping screw lubrication and tennon cleanliness are several of them.
Lilja recommends tightening the central setscrew (that bears against the bottom of the tennon) first, while the clamping screws are loose, creating a stress concentration when the action is clamped which again IMHO is never a good thing. Personally, I remove the setscrew and never install it again (ever). They also recommend an installation clamping screw torque of something like 8nm (about 70 in lbs) - which is exceptionally high. The tennon should be fit precisely - using a light press fit, to limit the amount of torque the clamping screws need to simply close the gap and contact it. And if the action is bedded, tennon diameter is also critical there - the clamped corner of the action will lift or drop as the tennon diameters vary.
From all of the testing I did on this action (I used them for a very, very long time, having purchased one of the first that landed in the USA), a clamping screw torque of 3 to 4nm worked well. It is a variable that merits testing from the bench.
PS.....the very first prototypes were not the silver / nickel coated versions, they were chrome moly steel and blued. I have one of those also! It's pretty darn good looking, even if dated by todays RF standards.
I hope this helps,
kev
IMHO the installation instructions provided with them are not usable. The 2000 series actions are very temperamental, and if you want performance to repeat between barrels (if you intend to test and use several - one of the strengths of this action) you need to be exceptionally OCD regarding setup variables. Headspace, clamping torque values, clamping screw lubrication and tennon cleanliness are several of them.
Lilja recommends tightening the central setscrew (that bears against the bottom of the tennon) first, while the clamping screws are loose, creating a stress concentration when the action is clamped which again IMHO is never a good thing. Personally, I remove the setscrew and never install it again (ever). They also recommend an installation clamping screw torque of something like 8nm (about 70 in lbs) - which is exceptionally high. The tennon should be fit precisely - using a light press fit, to limit the amount of torque the clamping screws need to simply close the gap and contact it. And if the action is bedded, tennon diameter is also critical there - the clamped corner of the action will lift or drop as the tennon diameters vary.
From all of the testing I did on this action (I used them for a very, very long time, having purchased one of the first that landed in the USA), a clamping screw torque of 3 to 4nm worked well. It is a variable that merits testing from the bench.
PS.....the very first prototypes were not the silver / nickel coated versions, they were chrome moly steel and blued. I have one of those also! It's pretty darn good looking, even if dated by todays RF standards.
I hope this helps,
kev
TRSR8
Silver $$ Contributor
Kev,
Sorry to get off track but your post brought back lots of history/ memories.
Back when the California guys( Chernicky I think) did a major article for PS magazine, early 90’s, when rim thickness/ headspace was the deal, I reached out and discovered they brought over 10-12 2007’s, barreled actions only and agreed to sell me one which ended up with one of Dan’s drop in’s.
It was interesting because while the WLM lays claim to tuners, this came with a clamp on, non adjustable tuner that was also slotted to locate on a pin set in the barrel, about 1” back. Tommy Meredith bedded it and if you didn't screw up the clamping it shot pretty good.
This was not for sight radius, zero provision for sight mounting, and it worked on the 19” ( as I recall) barrel, it was a true tuner. I suspect German engineers were not taking ques from Kentucky
Did you ever hear of these things?
Please check your PM
Among the earliest 2007/2013 models may have been what's referred to in the 1990s as the Anschutz BR-50 rifle. It had a muzzle weight on the 500mm (about 19.7") barrel. It wasn't a tuner in the sense that it was adjustable.
While it's not clear that the above rifle was completely a factory product, the more commonly seen 2007 had a 500 mm barrel as well. It also had a barrel weight/extension that was located on a pin (about 1" back as you say and as I recall,). I had one that was dated 1996.
Below is an image from a mid-1990s brochure. Below the literature image, the 1996 model, which is stamped 2007/2013 on the barrel. I put that barreled action in a more recent Anschutz BR-50 stock.
Anschutz at some point had a specific Anschutz BR 50 model with the 500 mm barrel and barrel weight/extension. (see below)
The barrel weight/extension has dovetails for mounting a front globe. It is fixed and non-adjustable. (See the image below the rifles.) Anschutz also made a very similar but longer barrel weight/extension as well as one that's made to fit the larger muzzle diameter of the 1913 and 2013 barrels.
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TRSR8
Silver $$ Contributor
This, I believe came a few years later. The 2007 barreled actions that came here had no provisions for stocks here or home market for a few years, then the BR50’s made an appearance.
The “tuner” on these, I never saw on anything else here or EU…..everything after was a version similar to your pictures, a longer bloop with dovetails.
I always wondered about this.
The “tuner” on these, I never saw on anything else here or EU…..everything after was a version similar to your pictures, a longer bloop with dovetails.
I always wondered about this.
All:
Thanks for this thread, it has brought back some great memories. I have a love for these actions that will never go away - it was the first "serious" rifle I purchased, and the reason I started doing my own smithing work.
IMHO, these actions were everything anyone could want - exceptionally reliable, fantastic ignition and extraction, and the idea (conceptually) of a clamped tennon - and the ease of getting it right for the beginning gunsmith - couldn't be overlooked. For whatever reason though, the system is temperamental. For years I kept literally dozens of barrels for this action - all with precise setup information and ammunition testing / tuning data. The frustration came in if you were rotating thru barrels, and couldn't get the performance to repeat - exact same setup, same lot, exact same tune. To this day I don't know why. If this wasn't the case, I would still be using it today.
People have said if you get a setup with this action to shoot well (and they can shoot exceptionally well), leave it alone until the barrel / ammunition is completely gone. I agree, except that this amazing action begs for experimentation. If you pull a great shooting barrel though, you need to realize you may just never get it back!
I have included a few pictures of the CM action in case any are interested.
The short barrel / extension tube offered was kind of revolutionary for its time. I believe tuners and extensions were around pre-1985 in many forms, but not offered from a manufacturer that I can remember. The AMU did a significant amount of testing around the extension tube Anschutz provided - mostly playing with torque values on the clamping screws. I remember Mike Anti telling me they were using 6nm (which was a lot of torque for threads in aluminum), which many were using. I don't believe we prone shooters were manipulating the mass along the barrel's axis (per todays tuners) - but the additional torque did seem to improve performance (either through muzzle constriction, or some variable involving the rigidity of the connection, IDK).
Gradually the innovations made in other disciplines (specifically RFBR) made their way into prone shooting, which has been a very good thing.
All the best to everyone, have a great fall / winter,
kev
Thanks for this thread, it has brought back some great memories. I have a love for these actions that will never go away - it was the first "serious" rifle I purchased, and the reason I started doing my own smithing work.
IMHO, these actions were everything anyone could want - exceptionally reliable, fantastic ignition and extraction, and the idea (conceptually) of a clamped tennon - and the ease of getting it right for the beginning gunsmith - couldn't be overlooked. For whatever reason though, the system is temperamental. For years I kept literally dozens of barrels for this action - all with precise setup information and ammunition testing / tuning data. The frustration came in if you were rotating thru barrels, and couldn't get the performance to repeat - exact same setup, same lot, exact same tune. To this day I don't know why. If this wasn't the case, I would still be using it today.
People have said if you get a setup with this action to shoot well (and they can shoot exceptionally well), leave it alone until the barrel / ammunition is completely gone. I agree, except that this amazing action begs for experimentation. If you pull a great shooting barrel though, you need to realize you may just never get it back!
I have included a few pictures of the CM action in case any are interested.
The short barrel / extension tube offered was kind of revolutionary for its time. I believe tuners and extensions were around pre-1985 in many forms, but not offered from a manufacturer that I can remember. The AMU did a significant amount of testing around the extension tube Anschutz provided - mostly playing with torque values on the clamping screws. I remember Mike Anti telling me they were using 6nm (which was a lot of torque for threads in aluminum), which many were using. I don't believe we prone shooters were manipulating the mass along the barrel's axis (per todays tuners) - but the additional torque did seem to improve performance (either through muzzle constriction, or some variable involving the rigidity of the connection, IDK).
Gradually the innovations made in other disciplines (specifically RFBR) made their way into prone shooting, which has been a very good thing.
All the best to everyone, have a great fall / winter,
kev
Attachments
You have too much stuff. Sell that 40x back to me and you won't have so much.
If you sell it back to me, I'll buy the steaks and booze. And I won't say anything bad about you for a while. C'mon man.
Shameless ZR1 picture.....everything else in the garage looks trashy (including when I'm in there! LOL). If I am going to use a background, it's the best I have!
.2560" for the minor cone diameter (at the breech), 30 degree cone, .120" deep.
Polish a .005 / .007 radius for rim clearance, and you're done!
kev
I use them in aluminum G&E stocks (with a fiberboard spacer), and in a pillar bedded Robertson prone stock - and use the same torque setting for all of them (2.5nm).
From years of testing, lighter torque settings on the action screws always worked better.
kev
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